Want to know consulting trends? Paul Leinwand is your man. With over 2 decades of consulting experience, Paul is a thought leader on strategy, growth, and capability building.
He joined our team for a candid convo on consulting trends - and much more:
- Who Strategy& is through the lens of Paul’s experience
- How the nature of strategy consulting is shifting
- Keys for a successful career in consulting
- What the “secret sauce” at Strategy& is
- & much more
Find the episode below, and write to us with any follow-up questions.
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Podcast Transcript:
Jenny Rae: Paul, we're thrilled to have you on the podcast today. Thank you for being on Strategy Simplified. You have been in strategy consulting for over two decades and have no doubt witnessed a lot of change. Can you share at a high level how the industry has evolved since you first got your start?
Paul: Absolutely. First of all, Jenny Rae, great to be with everybody again. We had a really nice discussion a few months ago. I'm sure some of the folks from today were there—looking forward to today's discussion. Certainly, this is a good start, right? Because the history of strategy consulting is pretty interesting.
First of all, I would just like to point out that strategy itself is relatively new. If you think about the world of business, the first time we see the word "strategy" used in a business context, it kind of has an old military history. It’s probably 50 years ago, which sounds like a long time, but again, in the history of lots of things, that's pretty new. The Chief Strategy Officer position in most companies was not there 15 years ago, right? So if you think about today's organization, functions like finance, marketing, sales, operations, and legal have been around for a long time. Strategy, not so much.
Because of that, strategy was something that companies would look to the outside for help with. That’s, in some ways, why this profession got created—because organizations would hire strategy firms to handle anything related to whatever we can define strategy as. I'm sure we can have a good conversation about that. But there’s been a lot of change as organizations have built up their own strategy functions. They still use a lot of outside help—there’s no question. There’s tons of advice, guidance, and work, but it’s gone from what was historically like the corporate strategy effort that was done, let’s say, every year, and you’d look at every business and every function. Now, strategy consulting is much more outcome-focused.
For instance, you may have a particular business that isn’t doing so well. You’re looking to grow in this segment, or you want to add a new capability to your list of capabilities. You need an advisor that can help you create that type of output or business outcome, rather than just doing strategy because we all think that strategy should be done. Although I’m a strategist, I think strategy should be done. But if you think about the profession of doing strategy work, it’s becoming much more specific and much more goal-oriented.
Jenny Rae: So, you mentioned some of the goals, the metrics, and the positions that have been created. How is the nature of strategy consulting shifting today? And can you highlight a few significant trends you’re seeing play out in the market?
Paul: For sure, there is so much going on right now in organizations. In every industry, they are facing unprecedented levels of decisions about their futures. Some of these decisions are what we might call very strategic—in terms of who they want to be, what their position is, what their purpose is. But there are also really interesting and complicated decisions about things like where to deploy AI, where to invest in technology more generally, what operating model to use to go to market and drive growth, and what cost structure should support the business.
Where are we putting our investments? What are the inorganic moves we want to make? These are incredibly interesting and challenging topics for CEOs and executives to decide on, and that’s why this profession has such an important role to play in today’s society—not just the economy but society as a whole—because there are very few organizations that can truly step back and objectively provide guidance around not just what's happening on these topics but what should happen in their organization on that topic. We could have a whole conversation about AI, but deciding what should happen for this organization on that topic—that’s a completely different and really important discussion.
Jenny Rae: So, what's happening in AI in general is an article, but what's happening for AI for us as a strategy—is that how you would say it? Something like that?
Paul: Exactly. If you look at AI—and we could spend a lot of time on this—there are thousands of use cases, and these are evolving almost daily as organizations explore deploying technology against a wide range of opportunities. There are some great examples out there. However, if every organization tried to put AI everywhere, they would fail because they don’t have the scale or the experience.
Organizations have to take a topic like AI and ask, “Given who we are, the types of problems we’re trying to solve, and the experience we want to deliver to our consumers or customers, how can this technology be meaningful for us?” More importantly, rather than just deploying technology for the sake of it, they should be asking, “What should we actually be doing?” Technologies are wonderful, but we want to rethink the way we go to market and engage with the world, using technology to its fullest potential without seeing it as a band-aid.
Otherwise, you create a lot of “tech debt” by applying technology to individual problems instead of stepping back and rethinking how work is done overall. This is where strategy consulting has been incredibly valuable over the past several years—helping organizations see the potential of technology and deploy it effectively.
Jenny Rae: So good. Let’s talk about misconceptions around strategy consulting. What are some of the assumptions you encounter from clients that might undervalue the industry? In areas where consulting has been more cross-functional versus unifunctional, or vice versa, what are some misconceptions you need to address to unlock the full value of what you do?
Paul: It’s funny—I had two conversations on this very topic just this morning. In one conversation, someone asked, “How much of your work is just telling clients what they already know?” That’s a very leading question, of course.
Jenny Rae: What did you answer? You have to tell us.
Paul: Interestingly, this wasn’t my question to answer directly; a colleague shared this conversation with me. The industry, in many ways, is really beyond that. Sure, there might be cases where consultants collect information and share it back, and that can add value if it’s done in a helpful way. But overall, our clients are very smart, and they wouldn’t pay the fees they do unless they saw tremendous value from our work. That stereotype of consultants stating the obvious really doesn’t hold up in practice.
Another misconception, which I find interesting, is about frameworks. Some people ask, “What’s the framework you use to make all your recommendations?” as if there’s a single, simple answer. I imagined myself walking in with Porter’s Five Forces, saying, “This will answer every project—just check the boxes, and you’re done.” But what’s incredible about strategy consulting is how bespoke the work truly is. Yes, we have methodologies and a philosophy that drive our thinking on value creation, as you mentioned with our work published through Harvard on capabilities.
However, each project requires a unique approach, shaped by the specific data, client needs, circumstances, and competitive landscape. There’s no universal framework that magically answers every problem. Frameworks are valuable for structuring information and discussions, but ultimately, finding the right answer requires a lot of creative thinking.
Jenny Rae: So, I'm going to push back in a way that I’m sure clients also push back because I think your answer will be illuminating. I know a lot of people have joined this call because they want to apply to your firm in two weeks, and they’re looking for that “secret nugget” of information where they can connect who they are to what you’re doing. But the pushback I can imagine a client might have is, “If it’s bespoke, and you’re going to create it yourself, why shouldn’t we just create it in-house?” How would you explain the value of a bespoke consulting service to someone who regularly works on these kinds of projects?
Paul: Absolutely. I always encourage clients to try to solve as many of their problems as they can internally. I think that’s excellent, and many organizations have great capabilities. There was an old view that consulting firms would hire these bright MBA graduates, as if all the intelligence was concentrated there, but today, there’s incredible intelligence and capability in organizations everywhere.
What a consulting firm brings is unique for several reasons. First, consultants see what’s happening across various organizations, so they offer a distinct understanding of how similar problems have been solved in different environments. This typically isn’t in a competitive context, but they understand patterns that replicate themselves over time. You’d be amazed. Despite how unique each situation may seem, consultants who do it well can pull together very specific analogs from many places. This is what makes consulting bespoke—they rely on experiences from a wide array of situations.
At their best, consultants are also incredibly objective. Organizations sometimes struggle to take a truly fresh look at a problem. We often frame it this way: if you were setting up a competitor to take over your business, what would they do differently? That’s hard to imagine when you’re embedded within the organization, so a level of outside objectivity can be invaluable.
Finally, consultants bring expertise across a vast number of topics. An organization of a particular size might not have the exact expert they need to launch something brand new, whereas a consulting firm can deliver that expertise. So yes, companies often solve issues on their own, and that’s wonderful. We write books and make our methodologies publicly available because we want these solutions to benefit society broadly. Consultants can’t be everywhere, but in many complex situations, our insights can make a significant difference. It’s a worthwhile use of our energy to support clients with these kinds of topics.
Jenny Rae: I thought you were going to say something totally different, Paul. I honestly expected, “Go try it on your own for 30 days and come back when you’re stuck in a cardboard box!” I thought it’d be a hard sell, but you explained it generously and kindly—much nicer than I would have.
Jenny Rae: Let me ask another question. Based on the changes you’re seeing right now, how do you expect strategy consulting to look different in five years? If someone is considering joining this profession now, where do you think the field will be in five years?
Paul: For sure. I mean, there will be an ongoing set of challenges in terms of the dynamics of supply and demand. There’s no question—strategy consulting is a people business. We wouldn’t be anywhere without our people, and their expectations are evolving. They want specific types of experiences, training, and clarity around what their careers will look like now and in the future. We’re already seeing changes on the supply side, and we’ll continue to see these evolve over the coming years.
On the demand side, clients are raising the bar continually. They’re building impressive internal capabilities, and they have a lot of options—not just around choosing a consultant but in selecting which consultant they want to work with. There are hundreds of firms, big and small, with consulting capabilities. The list of small firms alone is pretty incredible, with hundreds of different organizations that can do consulting work. So, clients are continually raising the bar on what they consider valuable.
Additionally, consulting firms need to rethink their own approaches to technology and data analytics. A lot of the analytical work I did early on in my career is no longer done by a consultant. What’s fantastic now is that we can get a lot of that analysis done through technology, allowing us to focus on helping clients transform in meaningful ways. Managing that shift—how we incorporate technology into our work—is going to be really important moving forward.
Jenny Rae: Let’s move on and talk about Strategy& and how it fits within the broader ecosystem. When you’re up against a smaller firm, one of the things you can leverage is the scale and scope of PwC, the broader organization that Strategy& is part of. Are there specific ways you articulate that advantage? And what are some other reasons you share with clients on why they should work with Strategy& instead of another firm?
Paul: Fantastic question. Looking at the consulting landscape, this also applies to people on this call who might be considering joining a firm. You have traditional strategy firms—I started at Booz Allen Hamilton, which Ed Booz actually founded as the first management consulting firm. Then you have other firms with broader portfolios, as well as smaller firms. What’s really interesting about PwC and Strategy& is that we have a large-scale strategy business that came from Booz & Company and Booz Allen Hamilton, yet we’re connected to an incredibly powerful, all-encompassing professional services organization that understands many important areas.
That combination is unique. You can find at-scale strategy firms, and you can find firms that do a lot of things. But finding both together is unusual. For clients, this means that we’re not only doing the strategic work they ask for, but we also understand the broader consequences of those strategies. It’s one thing to say, “You should invest in these three capabilities, and here’s where growth will come from.” But it’s another thing entirely to be actively building those capabilities, allowing us to provide pragmatic recommendations based on a clear understanding of what it takes to be successful.
Many companies struggle with executing strategies, so we place a lot of emphasis on making our strategies pragmatic, thinking through all the implications of implementation. Instead of just providing advice, we focus on ensuring that the recommendations can realistically be put into practice.
Jenny Rae: Very good. I think that's incredibly insightful. Let me ask a counterpart question to the one I asked about the industry. What do you think is a misconception people have about Strategy& or PwC in general that you have to overcome when selling your work? And when you do, how does it help you close contracts and sign new clients?
Paul: I’m not sure if there are common misconceptions, but I do think there’s sometimes a lack of awareness about all the services PwC offers. Occasionally, we’ll meet with a client, and they’ll say, “Oh, we weren’t aware that you had this capability.” So there’s definitely an opportunity for us to help people understand the range of work we can do. This applies whether it’s strategy consulting or any of the other capabilities within the firm. PwC is a highly recognized brand, and we work with many of the largest organizations, so we have great access. But it’s such a big brand with such a diverse portfolio that understanding some of the verticals we operate in isn’t always straightforward.
Jenny Rae: One challenge for people when they have these “everything” opportunities—where they could do anything under the sun—is that they have to pinpoint a culture. What’s a cultural value that stands out in an “everything” culture? Are you “everything” to everybody, or nothing to anybody? What do you think are a few cultural factors that resonate with your clients, and that they might be choosing you for, beyond your capabilities?
Paul: That’s a fantastic question, and I think you’re absolutely right—clients choose the firm they work with largely because of the people. Behind those people, though, is a set of cultural norms and behaviors that are incredibly important. For us, we talk about having a “sleeves-rolled-up” culture. We work side-by-side with clients, digging deep into the details to ensure solutions are pragmatic and actionable.
Our approach is not just analytical in terms of being able to crunch numbers. It’s about creatively using data to provide the right solution based on what we’re seeing. That’s a unique skill set. One of the great experiences our staff has is training in that kind of analytical, detail-oriented work, allowing them to make some of the most impactful strategic recommendations on truly challenging problems. The value comes from analyzing what’s going on and providing fact-based recommendations. This approach has been incredibly beneficial for me throughout my career.
Jenny Rae: Paul, can you share maybe one or two stories of people’s journeys—cases that were engaging or interesting to you—that highlight some of those cultural opportunities?
Paul: There are so many fantastic stories of individuals who have had incredible careers at the firm. I’ll share two. One is about a partner who recently retired from our healthcare practice. This person is incredibly respected in the healthcare industry—so respected that CEOs will call them directly with challenges, saying, “I need your advice.” That’s what we all aspire to in our careers. And culturally, this person is the most down-to-earth, nice human being you could meet. Often, we think of luminaries as being a bit inaccessible, but this person is just the opposite.
I think that reflects our culture in general. We’re not going around thinking we’re smarter than anyone else. We’ve been given a unique role and responsibility in today’s environment to help with some of the toughest problems, and that mindset goes a long way. Our clients see that. They want to hire people who genuinely want to help, not people who are just excited to come in with an idea the client hasn’t thought of. It’s about their success—the success of the company, organization, or nonprofit—and we see our success in our clients’ success. When they’re doing well and able to drive the value they want, we feel great. That’s the ultimate success.
The second story is about someone who worked with us for a long time and then went on to run a nonprofit. They didn’t just leave to run a nonprofit; they were asked to because of their approach to problem-solving, creative analytics, and everything our career model supports. This was a very large nonprofit that was struggling, and this person went in and did an incredible job, driving significant value outside the firm based on what they’d done with us.
Jenny Rae: So good. I love that you shared one story about someone within the firm and one about someone who went outside. I think that’s powerful. Let’s talk about you. Why Strategy& for you? I’m sure you’ve had a few, maybe a thousand, headhunter calls over the years. What has your career journey looked like, and how have those cultural values made your work there “sticky”?
Paul: Yeah, this is a nice question. I’m happy to answer it. It’s been a really wonderful career, and I’m still looking forward to many great experiences. I started at Booz Allen because, at the time, it was a firm where you could join and focus on a specific industry. Some people want exposure to every industry, while others, like me at the time, wanted to focus on one. I liked the idea of working in consumer products. I had previously worked as a buyer at Macy’s and really loved the retail and consumer sector. I didn’t want to explore other sectors immediately.
Ironically, after I joined, we shifted to a model where we encouraged diverse experiences, thinking it would really benefit people. I ended up working in industries from automotive to banking to health insurance, and that provided a great learning experience. That’s why I stayed, moving forward and embracing the constant learning curve. I think that’s why people are drawn to consulting or strategy consulting—they know there’s a lot to learn. Learning curves do eventually plateau, but I’ve been lucky.
Halfway through my career, I was asked to start thinking about our perspective on strategy, which led to articles and eventually books with Harvard. We do research with them all the time, so that was a great challenge for me. I wouldn’t say I was naturally ready to write a book—quite the opposite, as my high school English teacher might say. But going through that journey, learning the process, improving over time, and figuring it out has been incredible.
In the last five years, I’ve had the chance to work with many hospital systems. That’s been a unique challenge, bringing a consumer mindset into healthcare. I’ve been able to drive programs for the firm, lead teams, and continue in research. For me, it’s all about the learning curve and being in an environment that truly supports it.
Jenny Rae: If you were to describe where your firm is today, to give some clarity for folks, would you say it’s more of a “try a lot of different things” model or more of a “focus” model?
Paul: It’s a pretty healthy balance. People do join specific teams, and what we’ve found over time is that mentorship at the team level is critical for people’s careers. If you’re only part of a big office or a large practice, it can be hard to provide that individual mentorship. So we have that specificity, but we also encourage people to explore different assignments with different organizations. We provide lots of opportunities for that because we believe it’s important. I think we’ve found a happy middle ground that works well for most people.
When people are considering which firm is right for them, they’ll notice that firms are different in this regard. Some firms are very focused, while others ensure you get the broadest possible experience. It really depends on what people want.
Jenny Rae: Love it. I know you spend a lot of time with students who are thinking about their futures, so I’d like to ask a few general consulting career questions. I’m sure you get these questions often, but we’ll take a bit of a different angle. First, what’s one indicator that consulting might not be a fit for someone? When someone comes to you, they’re enthusiastic about consulting for various reasons, but you just think, “Absolutely not. You should do something else.” What’s the signal for that?
Paul: What a fantastic question, and I’m glad you asked this. We’ve been teaching at Kellogg for, I don’t know, 12 or 13 years, and one of the things we encourage students to do is to think hard about this question—not just “consulting, yes or no,” but to look at the types of jobs people often want, like strategy consulting, tech, or working for a startup. People rarely take the time to assess where they’ll be happiest and where they can leverage their unique skills.
We all have unique strengths, so a simple exercise we ask students to do is to write down their strengths and think about careers and organizations that can harness those strengths, adding to a team and creating impact.
To be specific to your question, I don’t think it’s necessarily something someone might say, but this career absolutely requires a client-focused mindset. If you’re joining a consulting firm with the sole hope of accelerating your career or proving how amazing you are, you may struggle. Consulting work is for clients, and clients are unique, with their own attributes and cultures. A lot of our energy is spent understanding the client, and that requires patience and empathy.
Patience and empathy are qualities that help accelerate a consulting career. If those qualities aren’t high on your list, or if client service seems challenging because you want a more concrete deliverable, this may not be the right profession. There are other great careers that leverage different skill sets or preferences. But yes, patience, empathy, and a focus on others’ success are critical. Without them, there could be some challenges in consulting.
Jenny Rae: There's a lot of debate in the career space right now about what the attributes are of a top performer. Would you say the attributes lean more toward hard skills, like their ability to get things done, their time management, data analytics? Or do they lean toward soft skills, like their ability to influence, communicate, and drive that human connection? If you had to pick one, which one would you say, and can you give us an example if you have one?
Paul: Yeah. I mean, before you said, "If you had to pick one," my answer was going to be, this is a profession that requires excellence in both. It really does. There’s no question that you could be a great individual contributor on a consulting team, for a period of time, with strong analytical skills—absolutely. But if you want a career in consulting, at some point, your incredible analytical skills will sort of plateau if you lack the ability to relate, to use those ideas, and communicate them effectively. You’ll likely get frustrated because others will need to handle that aspect for you.
On the other hand, just having incredible communication skills is wonderful, but our work is also analytical in nature, especially in strategy consulting. So, it’s not as though you have to excel in every single hard and soft skill. We have people who are excellent communicators through writing, and our written materials are critical. Over time, those communication skills also demonstrate a lot of empathy, because in writing, you need to understand your audience and translate your thoughts so they’re interpreted effectively. That’s a wonderful soft skill, even though you could say writing is also a hard skill.
We also have people who are incredible at communicating in front of large groups—not everyone is comfortable doing that. So, it’s not about being great at everything, but if you’re all one and none of the other, I think it’s going to be a tough road in consulting.
Jenny Rae: This is my “cheesecake theory,” Paul. When I was at Bain as an analyst, I leaned toward the empathy and soft skills side. I had to build up my analytical understanding to gain credibility. Once I realized that the number one challenge was getting data from clients, I figured out that the easiest way was to send them a cheesecake. I’d say, “I’ll take the data from here, and I’ll do the rest.” So, I had a cheesecake expense account. I’d figure out their favorite type of cheesecake, and that was how I got the data I needed from clients to do the work on the back end.
Paul: That's such a great story. I'm not sure I've heard anything like it, but it really speaks to the challenges we face. You start an assignment, you have limited time, and you want to tackle the problem right away. We have to figure out how to work with clients so they become part of the solution. It shouldn’t feel like, "Oh my god, I have to get the data, I have to get the data out of them." No, it’s part of the process, and we want them to be as excited about this effort as we are.
Jenny Rae: It’s so true. Cheesecake—the cheesecake theory. Yeah, that’s my cheesecake theory. Last question on this: you really have the ability to speak not just to short-term but also long-term success in consulting. What drives successful longevity in a consulting career?
Paul: The first thing that drives long-term success is actually your ability to sustain your lifestyle, because there’s no success for someone who gets burnt out. I could describe all the skills of an incredible partner who's been fantastically successful, but if you can't manage your work and everything else in life, it’s not sustainable.
I was fortunate to build some great relationships early in my career, and I always tell people, if you want a sustainable lifestyle in consulting, it’s much easier with incredible relationships. I don’t just mean knowing person X or Y, but relationships where there’s mutual trust. When you have trust, the transaction costs in this business come down significantly—things like selling time, proving yourself, or understanding the client’s situation. If you have all that figured out, it becomes a much more efficient and effective approach. You can also travel less, and you may work with the same clients repeatedly because they value what you bring.
So, managing lifestyle, which I think is paramount, requires an approach, but it also requires confidence. Knowing when to say yes or no to an extra project, deliverable, or commitment is essential.
On the skills and experience side, I mentioned relationship building, but I also think being famous for something is crucial. We often ask our directors who are trying to make partner, "What is it that people are going to come to you for? What problems are you uniquely positioned to solve?" And not just within PwC Strategy&, but uniquely positioned in the industry.
People may not have that specialty from day one, but we want them to have an aspiration and a direction toward it. If I look at people who have had incredibly successful, long-term careers, they were famous for something. They became known in a specific industry or functional area as the go-to person. That recognition makes our jobs a lot easier, as it opens certain doors and access that wouldn’t be available otherwise.
Jenny Rae: Well, Paul, as the final question before we move to a few fun questions, what are you famous for? I think that your clients probably know, but I’d love for our audience to know what the hallmark is of what you do, what you bring, and what you would say is your answer to that question.
Paul: So for many years, we were doing strategy work like many other firms, and we described it as "market-back." We still say "market-back strategy," and that was pretty popular because companies wanted to look outward. They wanted to gather information from the outside, understand where they were going, how to position themselves, and lots of other valuable insights would follow. But we noticed that those strategies—and the companies pursuing them—often struggled to execute them well. It became the famous “binder on the shelf” rather than leading to the growth we all envisioned.
I was in a unique position at a client where we realized that it wasn’t so much the market that was essential. Equally, or sometimes even more important, was a firm’s capabilities. And by a firm, I mean an organization, not a consulting firm. What does the company do better than anyone else? Not just what it sells or the products it offers, but what’s behind those products. Is there a unique way of innovating, a unique way of selling, or insights no one else has? What are these capabilities?
Now, Prahalad developed the "core competence" theory, which was amazing, but over time, core competencies often became viewed as individual attributes rather than organizational ones. We spent a lot of time on this idea and published an article in our own magazine discussing “capabilities” and “capability-driven strategy.” Harvard then approached us and suggested we explore this more broadly in a set of publications, bringing capabilities more into the core of strategy work.
The way we see capabilities, they’re the glue between strategy and execution. Capabilities are what people do every day. If you look at an iPhone, for example, it’s not hundreds of people saying, “I created the iPhone,” but thousands running capabilities at Apple. And you see this across organizations. This has become our central belief: capabilities drive execution, and they’re strategic because they differentiate you. They’re what you do better than anyone else. If you answer the question, “What capabilities matter for us?” you gain a huge amount of value. We've demonstrated this with extensive analytical research over the years.
So, that’s my focus—bringing this idea to life and helping organizations see its potential. It’s been incredibly rewarding for me to study this, and I continue learning. We conduct research with CEOs across industries, trying to understand why it’s so challenging to make these decisions and drive their organizations forward. We’re constantly learning and sharing.
Jenny Rae: There you hear it, y’all. You’re with someone who’s famous for capability-led strategy. I love that. We should probably post a couple of articles. We’ll work with your team, Paul, so people can read up more about you and the legend we have on the pod today.
Thank you again for joining us. Before we wrap up, I think it’s always fun to end with a few fun questions about you. These are illuminating, vibey, and awesome—just a reminder that consulting is a human-focused industry. Not a spreadsheet, AI, or anything else; the humans are still in charge, as I like to say in my sessions. So, question number one, Paul: who is one person from history you’d love to have dinner with?
Paul: That’s a... that’s a really hard question. There are so many people I would love to have dinner with. I think I would probably go back to the founder of some of the consulting firms. You know, it could be an Ed Booz or a McKinsey, just to understand what it was like for them to establish this profession and advance where we all are. But beyond consulting, there’s a list of 10 or 20 people that would be pretty incredible—you know, famous artists of the past and what their lives were like. So, I’ll work on that list and see if I can make some progress. Might be tough. Might be tough. We can try.
Jenny Rae: It’s probably better for, you know, an MBA drinking game versus a real question that you’re going to have to answer in your lifetime. But I mean, with AI today, you can probably replicate, maybe, what a conversation would be like with a lot of historical figures.
Paul: It’s wild. At least in the future, the legend of Paul will be something people can have dinner with 50 years from now, just based on what we talked about today.
Jenny Rae: Okay, good. Second one—if you could choose one superpower, what would it be, and why?
Paul: I think that, especially as it relates to my day-to-day work, being able to facilitate people’s trust in each other would be a really important superpower. There’s so much that is often in the way of human progress. As individuals, when we come to conversations, we bring a lot with us. Sometimes that’s good, but often we’re not learning because we either think we already know everything that’s going to be shared, or we’re afraid to kind of expose ourselves. In many ways, that trust factor is absolutely critical. I’d love to be able to help people get past that so they can advance their own skills, experiences, and relationships.
Jenny Rae: Love it. Last question—what is a highlight moment from your career that you think will come up at your retirement party?
Paul: Well, there’ll be a bunch of embarrassing ones, I can only imagine, but... you said ones that I would like to have, or one that I would like to have?
Jenny Rae: Either—I’m sure the embarrassing ones will be more entertaining for everyone.
Paul: I did have one. When we published our first book, we were on a bit of a world tour, and I’d been asked to present at a conference in California to a group of, I think, educational publishers. So I show up, ready to go. I’d done a few of these by that point. I’m walking down the main aisle towards the stage, and this individual is coming toward me. Right away, I had a weird sense, like, “Something’s not going to go well here.”
The person comes up and says, “You’re Paul?” And I said, “Wow, that’s kind of... great.” But I didn’t know who they were. And they said, “You don’t remember me?” I was like, “Well, you look familiar.” And they said, “Well, I was your high school English teacher.” And then she said, “What are you doing here at this conference?” like I was an attendee. And I said, “No, I’m... I’m presenting this book.” She said, “No, that’s not possible.” So, you know, that was kind of... a good story that I think might be replicated down the road.
Jenny Rae: That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, there you go, proving people wrong, left, right, and center. Paul, thank you so much for the illuminating, human, exciting, and energetic conversation today. I really enjoyed talking about the past, the present, and hopefully the future, at least as we know it from where we sit today. We're so grateful for the legacy you've brought to this conversation and the great advice. I think people will take a lot of that into what is promising to be one of the wildest recruiting seasons we've certainly ever seen.
Paul: It’s quite an atmosphere. I wish everybody really good luck. Jenny, thank you for the great questions. This is always fun to do when the questions are provocative and make you think, so I appreciate that. And for everybody on the call, we're discussing strategy a lot—where it's going and where it's headed. So feel free to follow me on LinkedIn or get in touch through Kellogg if you're part of that experience as well. And good luck with the upcoming year.