This episode features Juliane Hoss, a psychologist-turned-Bain consultant, and now, a case coach at Management Consulted.
Juliane shares her journey from psychology to MBB consulting, demonstrating that even the most untraditional backgrounds don't have to be a barrier to breaking into management consulting. Juliane also shares:
- What MBB interviewers are really testing you on
- How to be confident instead of anxious in case interviews
- How she builds confidence through 1:1 coaching
- & more
Connect with Juliane
- See Juliane's coaching calendar
- Read more about Juliane
Management Consulted Links
- Join the Strategy Sprint virtual consulting project - limited seats left!
- Join the Black Belt program for 8 hours of individual coaching with Juliane
- Schedule a free consultation with Eden
Psychology to MBB Transcription:
All right, let's kick it off with a 30-second introduction of your background pre-MBB.
Great. Yeah, I'm actually a psychologist who turned MBB consultant. So I've always wanted to study psychology.
My friend told me in high school, don't do that, you'll end up going crazy. And then at some point I was like, but we are all crazy, let me study. And I loved my studies, but I wanted to do something more on an organizational development side, not just focusing on the individual back then.
So that's how I turned to do a master's in London at the London School of Economics and Management. And then I joined Bain and Company back in 2017.
Wow, that's amazing. And so you have two master's degrees, right, that you received before you went into consulting?
Yes, correct, correct, correct. So I did my five years of psychology, learned everything I wanted to learn about people. And then I was just really curious to take a route more as a management and leadership.
And that's why I added the second masters. And I also added it back then, I wanted to establish myself to live and work in South Africa, where I was for a year and I really loved it. So it added up quite nicely.
Two Insights
Wow, that's wonderful. So what are one to two insights that you can extract for our folks with similar backgrounds that also want to break into MBB? And what can they do to set themselves apart in the application process?
Really own it as something that is special, that brings a different perspective, that helps you to think creative about the solutions, about the questions that the clients bring to you, and also own it as something that makes you stand out in how you build the rapport and how you engage the interviewer.
Because what I often find when I coach also, people nearly mention it as an apology, like I'm not an economics major, I don't have an MBA, I'm actually from a different background. And that's where the problem lies for me, is that they think is holding them back, rather than understanding that there's a very good reason that MBBs have a lot of economic or management students, but not only, they love the diversity in our approach, in our way of thinking, in our way of interacting.
So it's something that is your strength, so own it.
That's awesome. I see that every day when I'm talking to candidates, that they are looking for a way to show that they have a lot of diversity in their profile and how do they stand out if they don't come from a management background. So I appreciate that insight.
Recruiting Advice
So looking back to when you were recruiting, what is something that you would do differently to either save time or stress in the process?
Yeah. I would really try to be curious rather than anxious. Because I started my career before Bain, but also at Bain for a very long time thinking, how can I prove myself here?
How can I show people that I'm good enough? What will happen if someone notices today or tomorrow that actually I'm not? What if today everything falls together like a house or car that I've been trying to build, which that's how I saw my career.
And I think that just gave me a lot of stress, but I think it also affected my performance. I think I could have even been better and enjoyed it much more if I had told myself, you know what? Try to be curious here.
Try to just really give your best and then trust that your best is good enough. And that's something I had to learn over the years. And I'm still in stressful situations when I enter a client call with a challenging client.
And that for me is similar to an interview. And it still feels that way. So and then before the call, I just tell myself, go in, give your best and be curious what you can learn about the project.
Be curious what you can learn about the case and the interviewer, rather than thinking what can I demonstrate here. I did practice quite a lot. For a couple of weeks, I did a lot of cases with bodies.
It was important to me back then to get into an MBB, and I would do that again. But I would enjoy it more, and I would do it more with curiosity rather than with that anxious mind. So that's the main thing I would change.
I love that. I think maybe we should tag everything now with be curious instead of anxious or like some kind of a mix there and that would be awesome. All right.
Top Skills Learned
So moving forward through your career after you left Bain, what are some of the top skills and tools that you feel like you gained from your consulting experience and how have they helped you in your current role?
I have to admit, I never really believed that consulting gives you these superior skills. I was so skeptical. Honestly, I think I was the most skeptical version consultant ever.
I was like, what is this? What are we doing? What are we even learning?
I came here to be a great consultant, understand the world better, understand business is better, and here I am and I felt like I'm not gaining anything. Honestly, I felt like that for a really long time. And then what happened was many years out of university, must have been five years.
Yeah. I re-engaged with a friend who actually finished psychology with me. And she was working as in an in-house consulting, but more on a cultural change, in-house consulting role for one of the major global tech companies.
And they were doing the remote policies and international policies. And she was a little bit stuck, so I was like, you know what, I'm already around, let's sit together and look at it. And she was like, she was telling me the other day, she was like, do you understand that I'm still using the very same PowerPoint slide that you created in an hour.
And I'm not sure if I'm more upset that you did that in an hour, or more grateful that you did that in an hour. And what I realized is that it's things I thought is simple and everyone does that I actually learned. And first and foremost for me, it's like starting with the objective, always asking myself, okay, what am I working towards?
What is expected of you here? And bringing in that empathy to really understand what it is that your client or your direct boss needs in that specific situation. And that for me is life changing.
I always say you will identify someone who's out of an MBB that they will not start the task if we are not all clear about the objective. Second for me, it's really the structure. So I built a framework for her.
I mean, I didn't solve everything, put in all information, but I built the framework. So I synthesized everything she had been finding out, build a framework that she's still using today and feeding in whatever she finds out. And for me then, the third is really being super, super, super top down.
And that's also something I've noticed where my friends who don't have that background sometimes even frustrate the people they work with because they brainstorm together and struggle to understand, okay, at which level is this person? What is the most important communication they need and what is back up? So those are the three things that I feel I've learned and I'm still using every day.
That's amazing. When I started working with Management Consulted, they were training me on the same thing. And I would like to say to everyone, it is the biggest paradigm shift that you will ever have.
And it will completely change everything you do from now on. You can take command of a room in an instant, when you are able to think and talk in that manner. So that's pretty normal.
You just got to be careful because my friend said she sometimes, she spots herself thinking when she has a chat with her mom on the phone, like, could you be more top down with this story? It's a professional skill.
Yeah, we have to take off that consultant hat after hours, for sure. If we want to maintain healthy friendships.
That's great. Awesome. Okay.
Case Coaching
Well, let's move into talking about coaching. A lot of times when I'm talking to candidates, and I offer every candidate a free consultation to figure out how we can best support them. And I tell a lot of our candidates that they need to be working with you, by the way, because I absolutely love you and your coaching methods.
So I want to make sure that they all know what your coaching method is. So how do you help clients prepare for interviews in all of the world's top consulting firms? You know, you work with a lot of our international candidates, not just in the US.
And also, what is the process you run your clients through to prepare?
So definitely. So I think we all use the same process. First, understand what the interview is about, then do the cases, understand a little bit better, and then really identify where you need to double click on.
So I think the journey is the same we're using. But I think my process and what candidates could be a right fit for me is I combine the kind of more consulting case skills that you need, the technical skills, with feeling ready as a person, like the psychological preparedness that you need for the interview. So that's my strength of bringing the two together.
So when we look at the case, for me also, I always do a diagnostic case, really understanding how far is the candidate already, where do we need to double click on. And for me, it's very important to understand where are points of improvements. And then I give them the targeted plan to say, practice this until next session.
Because what's important for me is that I don't say, you need to get better at this, but to say, do one, two, three, so that you can cover that point better. Because even in all the teams that are managing, my standard is always to say, tell them how to build the house. Don't tell them how you want the house to look at the end of the day.
So give that clear guidance. But what we often forget, and that's incredibly important, is I also try to identify, where are the strengths of that candidate? What do they spike on?
What stands out? Because you will never be hired for your points of improvement. Yes, you have to iron them out, but you'll be hired for what you shine.
And that's very important, that we also identify that. And then on the emotional or psychological side, what I've noticed is very, very important, is that really the candidates feel, yes, I'm ready for this interview, so building that confidence. And what I've noticed is that a lot of candidates have self-doubt as they go through the interview.
And not only that uncomfortable, but it distracts you from the case. So these nagging thoughts, especially when you think it's not going so well, and keep in mind that a lot of interviewers test you on purpose. They stress you on purpose.
And then you hold yourself back. So it's very important that we prepare sentences how you pull yourself up in those moments and say I'm focusing back on the case. Also, I do a lot of personal fit because I also interview a lot now.
So I know when I interview you, I actually always ask myself, do I want to work with this person from tomorrow? So the fit is key being ready for that. And last, what we shouldn't forget, I also help the candidates think through, how do you create an amazing experience for the interviewer?
Because we often forget that the interviewer is also a person, wants to remember this interview as enjoyable, and they will remember it as enjoyable if there was a great feeling, a great rapport, not just by the framework. We've had so many frameworks. You often stand out more through the connection you create with the interviewer.
So I prepare candidates for that as well. Bringing those two sides together really.
I love that. And I'll just throw in an observation for you, for our listeners. When I've seen you give cases to candidates, either in live calls or whatnot, I have noticed a trend that you provide for them, which is you have this moment where you're wearing your interviewer hat and then you take off the interviewer hat and you put on your coach hat.
And it really delineates the, okay, we're in case mode and we're in an interview mode and then now we're in mentoring mode. And it really helps to create a very clear delineation between what it is that we're doing in this moment. So I really appreciate that.
And I often refer to that because I feel like it's a really phenomenal way to go back and forth in the middle of a session.
Other Coaching Insights
Now that you are on the other side of the table, you are now coaching and moving candidates through the process. What's another insight that you would have? And if you could throw in a little bit about how to best prepare your story with coffee chats or networking or whatnot, that would be really phenomenal.
So an insight I've gained over the years also being more senior in consulting and interviewing myself is that you really actually want to see that the person's approach to work is what stands out. And often when you're the candidate, you think you need to shine in terms of, I know it already, I got all of these insights, I know the fancy business terms, I have the best ideas. And what I know now from the other side is that we all know that no one out of university has it all, knows it all, has it all figured out.
So we test much more for the way you work, the humility you also apply in trying to really understand the case. Asking questions is so important because that shows that you're trying to understand it better, rather than trying to prove that you know it all already. And really working through in a way that gives me as the interviewer the feeling, wow, this person will be a team player.
They want to work together with me, they want to be on my team, rather than they want to shine and make, you know, feel like they can just fish compliments every day. So I think there is a shift in how I transitioned over the years that I realized what we bring to the table is really our approach, our interest, our curiosity and our willingness to grow. And really being very, very honest with how we approach the case, the things we need to clarify and then the insights we get together as a team.
That is what matters and not that we have it all figured out. And this shift, I wish I had known back then, and I think that is also very important for candidates. And then they also focus much more with a growth mindset on how can I get better, rather than having to feel like I'm already the best candidate for this company.
That shift for me, I really wish I had known.
Coaching Into An Offer
Wonderful. Can you give me an example of a candidate that you have coached into an offer?
Yeah, I still remember that. That was actually a funny candidate, because he came and he didn't even greet me, and he just is like, you know, for the last, I don't know, it's like maybe he said it was longer than a year. He was like, I've dedicated eight hours a week to casing interview, and it was crazy how he kind of knew the whole technical toolkit.
However, there was this gap at bringing it together in an interesting way. He was speaking in a very monotonous voice. I felt like, he's not even greeting me, he doesn't even ask me from where I'm dining in, it's fine, I'm his coach.
But I was like, if I was the interviewer, I would have really felt like he doesn't see me. And also I felt like there was this gap in a little bit of really trying to feel into what I'm trying to assess. And then I realized he doesn't need better technical skills.
He needs to learn how to translate them into an exciting story. And I mean, that's our job. If we would just analyze business problems, we would be analysts.
If we would just try to convince people, we would be in sales. But consulting is bringing both of that together. Analyze, get the insights, but then ask yourself, how do I take the client along the journey that they buy in and they are convinced and they will implement it?
And that is the amazing skills that we learn. And we look for people that can bring both of that together. And that candidate actually got in, is working in the Netherlands at Bain.
He loves it, he enjoys it. But I think it was really good that he got me as a coach because we were able to close that gap together. Because he was even over prepared with his case skills, like the actual techniques he needed to bring to life.
How To Work With Juliane Hoss
Wow, that's such a wonderful story. I am so glad to hear of all of your success and just how much you are helping candidates navigate through this process. So tell me, how can our candidates work with you?
Yeah, so they can find me on the management consulting platform. And also, what's great about Management Consulted is that you can also speak to the Management Consulted team and ask who of the coaches is best suited for me, because they know us very well and they understand what we bring to the table and who's the best fit for which candidate. So that's always an option.
And obviously, if you check out the different programs, then you also get coaching combined with all of the tools and the resources. And I think that is very important that you have that both. But you will find it also in the show notes.
Oh, that's right, because Japheth, our producer, is excellent. He's always good about adding that in there. So wonderful.
Okay, well, let's move on. I so appreciate all of the information you share with us today about your journey. I know you are very heavily involved in mental health initiatives which I find really admirable.
As a fun fact about you, I would love to hear what accomplishment you are most proud of in that area.
It's actually an accomplishment from this year. We started doing retreats. So my friends and I, we have a small farm in South Africa.
So we use that for retreats. It's a friend also from Bain who is helping with the yoga, and then I do the meditation and the self-reflection and the growth. It's so beautiful.
And we always go for the sunrise. I actually had a board member from a consulting company with us there, and he watched the sunrise with me, and he's like, how does that go together? You have this go-getter, hardworking, always pushy person.
And now we're sitting watching the sunrise, and he's like, yeah, those are the two sides of who I am. And it's beautiful, the retreats, the space that we create. I really, really love it.
Oh, I love that too. And I want to know when you're going to do that next, because I want to be there. I will fly from the US to join you.
You should come. No, we have two or three like every month. It's amazing.
Oh, that's great. Wonderful. Awesome.
Well, thank you again for joining us today, Juliane. I so appreciate your time. Yes, I so appreciate your time.
And all of the support that you're providing our candidates is really wonderful. So I think this is a great place to end the call. So have a wonderful day and we'll see you next time.
Okay. And I'm looking forward to work with more candidates. It's an amazing opportunity as a start in the career for so many paths to take afterwards.
So I'm really happy to help some candidates open that door.
That's great. Thanks so much.