Making the Leap: William’s Path from Public Sector to Economic Consulting

Transcription:

Y'all, welcome to this live recording of the Strategy Simplified podcast. We are so honored today to have William Shields with us from Bates White.

William, our team wrote you what I think is a pretty awesome bio, so I'm going to read it. We're going to introduce you, and then we're going to dive right into today's conversation.

So William Shields, who's joining us today, is a managing consultant at Bates White's Mass Torts Practice. He specializes in bankruptcy, product liability, and insurance allocation.

He also has experience in the firm's energy practice, focusing specifically on renewable energy projects. Previously, William worked in international development for US federal agencies, distributing foreign assistance.

William, you were a Peace Corps volunteer in the Philippines. Very cool.

You managed food assistance projects at the USDA's Foreign Agricultural Service, and you were a senior data analyst at USAID's Data Services Department. William holds an MA from Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies and a BA from American University.

William, welcome to Strategy Simplified.

Come on, thank you. Thanks for everyone who's joining as well. I'm excited to be here.

Well, let's bust right into it.

I want to start first by talking about your transition from the public to the private sector. So you joined Bates White from the US government. Would love to learn a little bit more about what motivated your transition to economic consulting specifically, and why Bates White?

Yeah. So I joined Bates White in 2021, but I think that years started turning in my head around 2020.

So it's 2020. I've spent several years in the federal government, specifically working for international development programs, which you mentioned. Those experiences were extremely valuable to me, and I wouldn't change them for anything.

I got to work with my colleagues on projects that we felt passionately about. Got to travel. And the people themselves I got to work with were interesting and funny and fascinating.

But it's 2020, and I'm starting to feel a little restless, which candidly-- I don't think I was the only one that year who was starting to feel that way. But there were a few specific reasons, I think I was starting to consider what else might be out there.

The first is that I studied economics in graduate school and undergrad and continued to be interested in that world. But my work at the time for all its merits wasn't really scratching that itch. The second is that I was really interested in working in an environment where a customer or a client would pay me and my colleagues for the work that we do.

And the federal government in that environment, that's the taxpayer, they're your client. But the relationship is a bit more indirect than it is in the private sector. And finally, I think of myself as somebody who's fairly independent and self-motivated.

But I started to realize that I wasn't really getting the feedback or mentorship that might propel me forward in my career. And that's not in any way of indictment of the great people I worked with and worked for.

It's just not something that's always built into the structure of certain federal government workplaces the way it is at least at Bates-White. And so what stood out about Bates-White specifically? Candidly, I was pretty lucky.

I didn't know about Bates-White. And I was fortunate enough that a recruiter at Bates-White saw me at LinkedIn, reached out, say, hey, would you be interested in applying?

And at that time, what's economic consulting?

I had no idea. OK, I'll do some research. Oh, this looks interesting. This looks like it could potentially check some of the boxes that are making me a little restless around that time.

And the work seemed fascinating. But it's like consulting. I don't know. I'm coming from international development, right? Is this going to be a good fit?

But I'll apply. And so I applied. And these interviews are scheduled. And that was what really hooked me on Bates-White.

Because over the course of that process, I spoke to at least half dozen people. And there wasn't a false note at any point in that process. Everyone was kind, clearly intelligent, and clearly intentional. And I think that that last thing was what really struck me, the thoughtfulness and intentionality that came out of that thoughtfulness.

So-- William, I love that. You mentioned not knowing what economic consulting was. And we'll get there.

But first, I just wanted to ask you, what are some of the transferable skills that you found your time in federal service gave you, in terms of preparing for life in consulting? I have a government background. But we have a lot of people who come to us from a public sector background who say, am I a good fit for consulting?

What are the skills that I built in my previous career that would help me prepare for consulting? Can you just talk a little bit about how federal service prepared you for consulting?

Yeah. There's an answer that's very specific to me. Then I think there's a more generalizable answer.

So my last stop in the federal government before I got to Bates-White was on what's called the data services team, or what's called the data services team at USAID.

And that, I think, was a very good transition to Bates-White because you're working with coding languages. You're processing and analyzing vast amounts of data associated with USAID and its projects.

And that's-- I mean, the data is different. The types of analyses are different there than they are at Bates-White. But a lot of the tools you use are obviously transferable.

But OK, I don't know what somebody who doesn't work at USAID data services is supposed to do with that, acknowledging that there are similar teams across federal agencies.

But I think, in general, you have to be resourceful in the federal government. You're dealing with all sorts of constraints. And sometimes those constraints impose problems that seem unresolvable.

But if you are around long enough, you know how the system works well enough, you can kind of create solutions that I think just the people I worked with in the federal government were excellent and creative problem solvers.

And I think that that is something that's not well understood about people working the federal government. There are all sorts of constraints.

And you have to nevertheless work within those constraints and sometimes around them to implement the programs that you have been tasked with implementing.

And similarly, at Bates-White, we have to think creatively about the problems that we're faced. We have budgets. We have timelines. That's similar. That's not unique to economic consulting or the federal government.

But we similarly have to think, what can we accomplish given the constraints that have been imposed upon us? And I think that people-- I'm not the only person who's come from the federal government.

Bates-White-- and I think that that is-- you can observe it in the people who come in the federal government. It's not so tangible, but it's present nevertheless.

I think that's an insightful answer. And those of you who are listening into this interview today who have a government or a republic sector background, I think there's some nuggets in there for you as you think about how you position yourself in the networking process as you position your resume, et cetera.

So I hope you really pay attention to what William just said.

William, you had a great experience in the federal government. You were reached out to by a recruiter on LinkedIn. Love that. I'll take inbound over outbound any day of the week.

You started to research economic consulting. One of the things that I've learned just in my 10-plus years in the consulting space is that economic consulting is often misunderstood. So can you just quickly walk us through what economic consulting is, and perhaps more importantly, what it's not?

You know, that it is misunderstood. We realize that every year are new when we are going through the recruiting process and they're new viewing people.

And that's fair, because I think it's not that the label is inaccurate. It's perhaps a little imprecise, right? I think people hear the consulting part and immediately associate it with the features of management consulting, which are much more well known, right?

And there's not no over-- there is overlap between the two.

We work both in economic consulting and in management consulting on discrete projects. Revenue comes from billable hours. We all work on our fair share of slide decks. So there's similarities that you could attribute to consulting in general.

But I think what we do is far narrower than what is commonly understood. We do have some purely consulting-oriented engagements, but our matters largely take place within the context of litigation, right?

And so the typical case is oriented around an expert, largely but not exclusively PhD economists, who are going to testify about the economics, statistical, or data implications of some litigation, right?

So in mass torts, we have situations where, for instance, a large number of people are suing somebody, right? They have some claim against the defendant. OK, the defendant might be interested-- actually, everyone involved in the litigation is interested-- how can we put a value on those claims, on those lawsuit in aggregate, right? That's where we come in.

And it's a similar exercise, or not identical, but that sort of role we play in the litigation is similar across all of our practices.

That's really, really helpful. I think that's a really accessible definition of what economic consulting is. Can you talk to us a little bit about the type of person who thrives inside of that environment?

Maybe you could start first with just economic consulting in general, and then you could drill down a little bit into who would thrive at Bates-White.

Yeah, I think that the people who do really well-- they're tools we use. There are analyses we employ. There are methods we employ that are very specific.

It's helpful to know those things, and I can mention some of them. But I think the common denominator in terms of what makes people successful is-- it's going to sound a little tripe, but it's curiosity, because if you are sufficiently curious, that can make up for a lot of other deficiencies, or gaps in your skill set.

And I have plenty of mine, right?

But if you're thrown into a situation and it is unacceptable to you that you don't know something, you're going to get to where you need to get, right? And it's not even just a matter of what skills you have or don't have.

Suppose you're a super well-rounded consultant, you get thrown into a new engagement, and you get presented with reams of data, and you have to make sense of it quickly. And the only way to do that is just to be curious and just find it unacceptable to not know the answers to the questions that you think about.

So I think that that's probably common across economic consulting firms, probably any consulting firm, right?

I think what makes Bates White work separate and apart from that is that-- I think what's really interesting, like we have our fair share of people who are naturally introverts, right?

But nevertheless, people value and seem to enjoy working in teams, right? So it's very much not an environment where everyone goes off and does their own thing and then emails their results and, OK, let's figure out how they all come together.

We have a lot of the time a lot of us are working in the same room together. That's not to say we don't go off on our own and do work that's sustained and concentrated. That's really important.

But I think people really-- the best part of working here is working with the people around us. And so I don't know. You just have this environment where people are driven, but not by their egos, by curiosity.

And they want to work together with other people. I mean, candidly, it's a sample size of one in the consulting world for me.

So I think that's what makes Bates White work. It's my understanding that it's not how every place works. But it's kind of hard for me to imagine how those other places work without that kind of culture that we have with the twin.

I love that distinction driven by curiosity, not by ego.

I did want to also just mention, William, I love that you mentioned that you're working with people all the time.

I've been telling people for over 10 years, if you don't like people, you're not going to like consulting.

And it's this weird culture where you might be owning your own individual work stream, but you're sitting next to four or five other people who are all also owning their own individual work stream.

And so you're working alone, but together.

And if you don't like being around other people, you might as well just go start looking for another career path right now.

Is that a sentiment that you would agree with?

Yeah, I think so. I think it's essential. I mean, there are people here who are smart enough that they can do their work alone.

And I can be pretty confident that it's going to be correct. I'm not that smart, right? So I need other people to talk to, to sanity check things, to talk through results.

What am I thinking about? Am I thinking about it correctly? Is there something I'm not thinking about, right? I think most other people are similar.

So it's just a constant conversation, like I'm just constantly on teams talking about what about this, what about that?

And that is how we stress test our work, right?

So it's very conversational, I think more so, than I understood coming into it.

And it's just the core part of our work.

So yeah, if you don't enjoy that, yeah, maybe it's not for you.

But I think people would be surprised how much they would enjoy it, even if it sounds maybe not a good fit.

Like I think a lot of different types of people come in here and find themselves enjoying that kind of environment.

So William, can you zoom out for us a little bit?

Give us a 30,000 foot view of your typical day.

You're a managing consultant.

You just mentioned you're working with teams all day.

Is there a typical day that you have?

And if so, what does it look like?

No, no, there's not a typical one.

I'd say they're all really different, which is great.

And it keeps me on my toes.

Some days are a lot of meetings.

Some days are a lot of work planning.

Some days a lot of meetings with work planning.

Some days I'm coding all day.

And some days I'm writing all day.

It's actually not that common.

I'm doing any one thing all day.

Some days you kind of like-- most days you do bounce between those tasks.

And some days you're bouncing between those tasks on different projects if you're assigned to different projects, which most managing consultants are.

I guess, yeah, the common thing-- the typical thing is that they all go by really quickly.

And I'm often finding myself at 4 PM, kind of like looking at my watch, being like, how did it possibly get to 4 PM?

I can tell you about a day I had earlier this week.

Usually the days, like I said, they go by quickly.

So I tried to get to the office a little early before everything starts just so I can do some focus work myself, get myself together.

After that, this is Tuesday, I had a quick check-in with a senior consultant on one of the projects I work on.

Senior consultants are the sort of free management title, I guess, the cohort of people who honestly are probably the most important people in the firm.

In my opinion, they kind of make sure the trains run.

So I checked in with him to make sure everything was going OK on our projects.

And then I met with some of the firm's economists.

We're working on some econometric analyses for one of the matters I'm working on.

Around noon, we had a Mass Towards Practice lunch.

That's something we do twice a month to kind of get together, talk about project updates, talk about just developments in the Mass Towards Legal environment in general, and of course eat lunch.

After that, I think I had a check-in with one of my sponsors, so managers at the firm are often designated to be sponsors, quote unquote, and that is the formal mentorship structure that's in place at Bates-Wide.

And you are assigned several sponsories who are junior consultants, and you kind of-- but do the normal performance evaluation things, but also meet with them a couple times a month and talk about how things are going, problem solve with them.

So I had one of those check-ins.

Then I had a couple other meetings when we were trying to kind of anticipate arguments that the other side might make and think about rebuttals to those arguments.

And then we had a meeting with one of the experts to talk about how some of the analyses that he had asked for are going.

And that was 5PM at that point.

Very varied.

Doesn't sound like you'd get bored easily.

No.

I like that.

No.

No.

So William, we all know that the firm exists and that your role exists because you drive impact for clients, whatever that means, right?

But there's some outcome that you're driving for your partners and your clients.

That's why the job exists.

That's why the firm is thriving.

So can you talk us through a project that you've worked on recently?

I would just really love to hear the type of analysis that you and your team conducted and how your work specifically impacted that piece of litigation.

Yeah.

I can sort of talk about when it's ongoing.

So I won't get into details, but I can talk through basically broad strokes what we were trying to do.

So this was in the energy practice.

I kind of sit normally in the mess towards practice.

But one of the nice things about Bates White is that people move around a lot and kind of can slot in where they're needed.

And that gives the firm its ability to meet its business needs, but also gives people varied experiences.

So I'm wearing an energy hat, which was unusual for me when I first joined this case about 18 months ago.

And basically, the idea here is we were trying to-- it involved tax incentives for renewable energy projects.

And basically, we were trying to-- it's a long story, which I won't get into because I can't and because it's probably boring for everyone to call.

But we were trying to estimate the market price of renewable energy over different periods in time, which is kind of a tricky thing to do because it's not like crude oil or something that is widely traded.

There are particular features to that market that make it a little tricky to estimate market trends that develop over time.

And so that was what we were trying to do.

There's a number of ways we can do that, which we did use.

You can employ an econometric approach.

You can research all sorts of economic articles about the wind energy market and other solar energy market.

And those get condensed into an expert report, which then supports expert testimony.

So that's what I was working on.

It's an ongoing litigation.

So we don't know how it's going to turn out.

But we're hopeful.

I could imagine that one of the challenges of that particular case would just be that there's no benchmark for renewable energy, like there is for crude oil.

And we don't have to go too far down this rabbit trail.

I'm just interested.

Is that true?

And was that one of the challenges?

Yeah, it is interesting.

It's like there are different markets.

There's not one market.

These projects exist within region-specific markets, which each have their own features and challenges associated with investment, which in turn impacts the price of the energy produced by those projects.

So it is tricky.

And there's not a super long history either to draw from.

So you're really shaping maybe some of the-- you're shaping the history, in a sense, through your analysis.

That might be a little bit of a stretch, but you are giving the courts.

You're giving stakeholders a lens through which to view history that's data-backed.

Your words, not mine.

Yeah.

Well, William, you're someone who didn't just make the transition from government to consulting, but you also made this transition mid-career.

And we have a lot of folks who are listening to this podcast right now who are mid-career professionals who are thinking about making the transition from industry to consulting.

And so can you just walk us through maybe one piece of advice that you have for mid-career professionals considering a career transition to consulting?

What should they think about?

What's the process like from your experience?

We'd just love to hear wisdom that you have for that cohort specifically.

In terms of-- is the question like how they would go about looking for economic consulting roles?

Yeah.

Or how do you think about-- How do you know that consulting is the right place for you to transition to?

And then what are some tangible steps you can take to begin that transition?

Yeah.

I think-- I mean, I think at least with economic consulting, I think it is a place that is flexible enough to accommodate a lot of different backgrounds.

But I think that the thing is you do have to be-- you do have to like working with data, right?

And you do have to like working with numbers.

And there's a lot of different ways you can demonstrate that coming into economic consulting.

But just simply put, if that doesn't sound like you, it's not probably going to be a great fit.

And then in terms of how you can think about making the transition and how you can set yourself up to be a good candidate, I think that there's a lot of ways in which you can demonstrate qualities that Bates White is looking for.

There's a lot of ways to demonstrate in a lot of different organizations.

The federal government or otherwise, that you work with data, you perform analyses on data.

You work in teams on projects towards goals and deliverables.

Those are not specific to economic consulting.

And it's easy to identify things that you've done outside of the consulting world that demonstrate that you would be a good performer in the consulting world.

I think in terms of specific concrete skills, it's helpful to have in your back pocket some sort of coding language.

That's kind of the bread and butter of the tools we use every day.

Aside from that, it's not-- it's not very-- we're sort of agnostic to what sort of coding background you would have.

And you don't need to be an elite coder to be successful here.

I'm certainly not.

But it's helpful.

It's helpful to have that sort of background which can be applied to the specific tools.

Like people will come in with different coding backgrounds.

And maybe it's not the language that we use, but it's transferrable enough that you can get up to speed.

So those are the kind of things I would think about.

Is economic consulting a good fit?

And then what sort of skills do I need to kind of build up or develop to really position myself to be a good candidate?

I love that.

I think that's one of the big differences when we talk to candidates who are considering both strategy consulting and economic consulting.

Strategy you can get by with Excel.

Economic consulting, you really do need that coding language in your back pocket.

And I think that's an easy filter for people as they're kind of choosing one path for the other.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I would say, I mean, it depends on your timeline, right?

These things are-- they're challenging tools to learn.

There's no bottom to the well of things that you can learn.

That being said, they are learnable.

Many people have learned them, myself included.

And you can learn them within the context of your current job.

But sometimes you might not have as many opportunities in the context of your current job to pick up those skills.

And so there are all sorts of resources that have been developed that if you're interested, allow you to pick up those skills kind of on the side.

And that's what I did when I was at USDA.

It allowed me to transition to USAID data services and then on to Bates White.

But it was not something I was able to develop initially in my career.

And so the challenge was, OK, I have to learn this on the side.

The bonus was that there's so many resources that make that as easy as it could be.

So William, on top of that technical proficiency, is there one other tip that you could share with candidates who are looking to stand out in the application and the interview process?

Yeah.

And this is maybe less specific to economic consulting, probably something that a lot of consulting firms are looking for and something that can be easily demonstrated in a variety of workplaces.

But I think we really do value demonstrated success in working with teams, especially if it's in a leadership capacity, because it is so much of what we do.

And if you don't work well with teams, it's just going to be challenging, I think, to be successful here, probably a lot of other consulting firms.

So to the extent that you can demonstrate that, which I think a lot of people in the federal government or anyone looking to make that mid-curial transition, that should be easy to demonstrate.

You should have had a lot of opportunities to demonstrate that.

But that is like the sort of non-technical side of things that I've done a lot of interviews for Bates White.

And it's a big portion of what we discuss in those interviews.

Well, I know that we've got links to open roles at Bates White in the show notes and in the chat.

But I want to give you just a minute, as folks maybe are perusing those, to make your pitch for the firm.

What is it about the culture?

What is it about the work?

If you were going to give a 60-second elevator pitch for Bates White and why people should consider working with you, what would it be?

Yeah.

I mean, maybe I'll touch on some of the things I've talked about before.

But we started this conversation talking about me feeling a little restless and stuck.

Right?

And I think the lesson 60-second pitch was like I have not felt that way at all since I joined Bates White.

What have I felt challenged at times?

Like I don't know if I can do what's been put before me, stimulated, all these things, never bored and never stuck.

Right?

I got out of school and I did grad school.

But outside of school, you can feel at times, hard skills deteriorating.

The things you've learned deteriorating.

And for me, I was just looking for somewhere where I could halt, arrest that deterioration and then start to pick up new things.

That's exactly what's happened at Bates White.

To me, it's just a place where I'm just learning new things, not every year, but every week.

It's just new, new, new.

And at times, that's tiring.

But I wouldn't want it any other way.

What's the alternative to not learn?

This is a terrific place to be exposed to brilliant people.

And you're all working hard together and learning new things and figuring out tough problems together.

Could I ask for?

And yeah, I was talking about an average day, looking at my clock and it being 4 o'clock.

And similarly, over the course of Bates, I can't believe it's been almost four years now.

It's just gone by so quickly.

And I think that's a reflection of the fact that this place challenges you.

But it also makes it a really pleasant place to be challenged.

So challenge is good.

Being stressed and overwhelmed over a sustained period is bad.

But Bates White balances the challenge with a very collegial culture and a lot of support.

So they've seen everything.

They've been through it before.

And they know how to be supportive of colleagues and the people who work here so that we don't burn out, so that we can recover after busy periods.

And I think that that's really important to keep people happy working here.

And I think that's reflected in the fact that a lot of the people who are here have been here a really long time.

So maybe that was more than 60 seconds, but that's my pitch.

Will allow it, William.

So it sounds like you're doing intellectually stimulating work with people who are both smart and nice.

And let me just tell you from experience, being in a place where you can check all three of those boxes, that's pretty rare.

So-- Yeah.

Very likely.

Well, what we do here is strategy simplified.

It's a little bit of a tradition.

We always end our interviews with a couple of personal questions.

And so my first one for you is you mentioned the firm does a good job of protecting you from burnout.

So what do you do for fun outside of work?

I'm kind of like a hobby dilaton, right?

I try a lot of things and don't master any of them.

So right now, I am taking a class called basic adult drawing, which is exactly what it sounds like.

I'm very bad at it, but I've been finding it very relaxing.

So that's today.

If you had asked me this a year ago, it would have been golf.

If you had asked me a year before that, it would have been something else.

All of those things, I'm still pretty bad at, but I still find it incredible.

I haven't graduated from stick figures yet, so I'm sure you're ahead of me.

Yeah.

You'd be surprised.

I'm not sure I am.

And then what's one thing you're looking forward to?

Right?

This could be like a new movie, a TV show, a trip you're going to take.

It could be something professionally, but something that's coming down the pike that you're really looking forward to.

Oh, wow.

That's a great question.

And I think it's really important to have something to look forward to.

My wife and I are planning to go to Maine.

We're planning that trip this week.

And so, yeah, I guess that's what's on my mind is something to look forward to.

I love it.

Maine in the summer.

It's a great escape from the city.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the idea.

Well, William Shields is a managing consultant at Bates White.

William, really excited to get a chance to hear more of your story and really appreciate your time with us today.

Thank you very much.

Really happy to be here.

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