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	<title>Management Consulted &#187; MBA</title>
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	<description>Consulting resumes, interviews, jobs, and case studies</description>
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		<title>How To Break Into Management Consulting By Pursuing An MBA</title>
		<link>http://managementconsulted.com/business-consulting/2433/</link>
		<comments>http://managementconsulted.com/business-consulting/2433/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[business consulting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[consulting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[emba]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[executive]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[harvard]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MBA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Recruiting]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managementconsulted.com/?p=2433</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article was guest written by my friend Zeke Lee, a fellow former management consultant (Booz &#038; Co.) and Stanford graduate who offers some great real world advice on the realities of recruiting. Zeke is also the founder of the GMAT Pill Study Method, a great GMAT prep resource for those considering the MBA route [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p><i>This article was guest written by my friend Zeke Lee, a fellow former management consultant (Booz &#038; Co.) and Stanford graduate who offers some great real world advice on the realities of recruiting. Zeke is also the founder of the GMAT Pill Study Method, a great GMAT prep resource for those considering the MBA route for their career aspirations &#8211; more on that at the end of the article. </i></p>
<p>Those of you who follow Management Consulted know <b>the 2 most common ways to get into the industry</b> are through</p>
<p><b>1) undergrad recruiting at a target school</p>
<p>2) business school recruiting at a target MBA program</b></p>
<p>Well, let&#8217;s say you missed the boat with #1: undergrad recruiting. Your school wasn&#8217;t a &#8220;target&#8221; school or you had no clue what management consulting was until now. <b>How would you use #2 to get into management consulting?</b></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s first take a look from the firms&#8217; perspective.</p>
<p>You see, different firms have different hiring practices between these two options.</p>
<p>As a management consultant at Booz &#038; Company, I trained alongside with the rest of my hiring class. 95% of my class were <a href="http://www.degreescout.com/">MBA</a> hires. Booz happens to have a much more <b>&#8220;diamond&#8221; shaped hierarchy</b> with lots of MBA level hires, but only a few undergrad hires.</p>
<p>Other firms like Bain &#038; Company, on the other hand, hire a lot more undergrads and have <b>a more &#8220;pyramid&#8221; shaped hierarchy.</b> So a class of consultants will likely include a few more undergrads than MBA hires at a place like Bain.</p>
<p><b>Knowing the organizational structure of various firms helps you understand which firms have a higher demand at which levels. </b>As an undergrad you may not research much about a place like Booz, but certainly at the MBA level the firm would come into mind because of the greater opportunities there.</p>
<p>Many of my colleagues at Booz were hired from MBA and so I naturally learned how many of them broke into the industry.</p>
<p>Let me give you an example of an MBA hire who leveraged his previous industry exposure to get into a specialized team of Booz &#038; Company.</p>
<p><span id="more-2433"></span></p>
<p>This fellow consultant (we&#8217;ll call him Jim) used to work at Boeing&#8211;the aerospace company full of rocket scientists who design the 787&#8242;s and 777&#8242;s for continental and intercontinental airflights you&#8217;ve all been on. Realizing he wanted to branch out of the nitty gritty details of what he was doing at Boeing, Jim decided he wanted a more business oriented career. He tried getting into the management consulting industry but couldn&#8217;t even get an interview.</p>
<p>After getting the career advice he needed, Jim <a href="http://www.gmatpill.com/about-the-gmat/when-to-take-the-gmat-and-why-eariler-is-usually-better/">took his GMAT</a> and entered a top MBA program.</p>
<p>During a random networking event, he met a Booz &#038; Company employee who actually was not a management consultant&#8212;<b>BUT he happened to work right next to the group of management consultants at his office~</b> These consultants happened to specialize in aerospace!  This referring employee told the group that they might be interested in someone like Jim who came from a big-name aerospace company like Boeing.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to note that Jim wasn&#8217;t an aerospace engineer&#8212;he had some assistant project manager position. <b>But the fact that he came from a big company with a big brand name like &#8220;Boeing&#8221;&#8211;which also happened to be one of Booz&#8217;s key clients&#8211;made it that much easier for the referring employee to make the referral.</b> You see, branding is that important.</p>
<p>As a side note, for anybody looking for a job right after undergrad, I highly recommend starting with a company that has a STRONG BRAND name. <b>I would almost say that from a career perspective, it matters LESS what your job title is and MORE what your company name is&#8211;at least when it comes time to finding your next job in the early stages of your career. </b>Of course, there are exceptions to every rule but this is generally true. A strong brand helps people associate you with something familiar and makes the referral process much easier&#8211;it&#8217;s just the way human beings are wired up.</p>
<p>Anyway, back to Jim. So Jim got his interview with the Aerospace team because he came from Boeing, a key client for the aerospace team. His interview was actually delayed over  a long period of time because the <b>hiring managers were in and out of town traveling from engagement to engagement. Jim followed up and eventually met in person. </b></p>
<p>During the interview, Jim shared stories of how he became VP of the consulting society at his MBA program, how he led teams at Boeing and made presentations to 200+ colleagues, etc. Negotiations went on for quite a bit, <b>but eventually Jim got the job.</b></p>
<p>You see, this wasn&#8217;t even through the school&#8217;s official recruiting program! <b>Definitely make use of your school&#8217;s recruiting channels, but do not overlook random networking events that might point you in the right direction like this one did.</b></p>
<p><b>From this story, we can summarize Jim&#8217;s progression that you can also follow:</b><br />
Jim&#8230;</p>
<p>1) Realized he wanted to get into management consulting</li>
<p>2) Took the GMAT exam</li>
<p>3) Got into a top MBA program</li>
<p>4) Networked and leveraged the brand name of his company wherever he went so people could identify who he was (the Aerospace guy)</li>
<p>5) Got the interview with a very specialized team (generally less competition) that he had exposure to.</p>
<p>6) Closed the deal</li>
<p><b>Consulting firms love hiring people with industry experience + MBA. </b>Whether you work at Intel (semiconductor industry), Amgen (bio-engineering), or L&#8217;Oreal (luxury retail), getting an MBA can position yourself as a potential hire with the specific industry experience that firms love.</p>
<p><b>There&#8217;s much less risk for the firm to hire you if you already have a sense of who the major players are in that industry and how the competitive landscape looks. </b> Instead of spending the first few months reading reports on what is happening in the industry, you can just jump right into the real work&#8211;saving the firm time and money!</p>
<p><b>Ok ok, I know. There are a lot of assumptions there. </b></p>
<p>Just because you work at a semiconductor company does not necessarily mean you understand the semiconductor industry in the high-level way that consultants do. This is true. When I was at Lucent Technologies, for example, there were plenty of people who had no clue what was going on with the company simply because they weren&#8217;t exposed at that level.</p>
<p>&#8220;Huh? Quarterly Earnings? Today? What&#8217;s the CEO&#8217;s name again?&#8221;</p>
<p>So you can&#8217;t really say that by working in an industry you automatically understand what is going on.</p>
<p><b>However, for the purposes of finding a job what matters more is your PERCEIVED understanding of an industry rather than your ACTUAL understanding of an industry.</b> Your mere background of coming from an industry automatically raises your PERCEIVED value as someone familiar with that industry. And it is this PERCEPTION of industry expertise and industry fit that can help you get into a specialized team within management consulting. This is especially true when everyone else is pitching themselves as a &#8220;generalist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Be careful, though! It&#8217;s not as convincing (though still possible) if you try to change industries in the process. <b>For example, if you worked at Intel and want to do consulting in the retail industry, you&#8217;re going to be competing with people who already have retail experience and may be a better fit. </b></p>
<p>Having said that, IF you like your industry and just want to shift over to the business side of that same industry, then the <a href="http://www.gmatpill.com/about-the-gmat/gmat-career-management-consultinginvestment-banking/">GMAT/MBA route</a> will position you well for a career in management consulting for those who missed undergrad recruiting.</p>
<hr />
<p><i>For those of you who plan to take the GMAT exam, I highly recommend you check out a <a href="http://www.gmatpill.com">great GMAT prep resource</a>, the GMAT Pill Study Method, especially if you want to maximize your time efficiency when studying. The site&#8217;s been getting good reviews around the web and even has a 60-day money back guarantee if you are not satisfied. In fact, if you decide to enroll, Zeke is letting <a href="http://www.gmatpill.com/amember/signup.php?price_group=-3642">ManagementConsulted.com readers in for a generous 25% discount </a>&#8211;a great bargain and excellent alternative to Kaplan or Princeton Review.</i></p>
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		<title>Why Harvard Business School Does NOT Equal McKinsey</title>
		<link>http://managementconsulted.com/business-consulting/mba-business-school-management-and-strategy-consulting/</link>
		<comments>http://managementconsulted.com/business-consulting/mba-business-school-management-and-strategy-consulting/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[business consulting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bschool admissions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[business school]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[consulting jobs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[management consulting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MBA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[strategy consulting]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managementconsulted.com/?p=2366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thought has crossed the minds of almost anyone breaking into consulting:  Should I get an MBA first? Or should I do 2~3 years in consulting and then get an MBA? Is an MBA degree even necessary? If I already have an MBA, how can I leverage that? Is consulting a stepping stone to business [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p>The thought has crossed the minds of almost anyone breaking into consulting:  Should I get an MBA first? Or should I do 2~3 years in consulting and then get an MBA? Is an MBA degree even necessary? If I already have an MBA, how can I leverage that? Is consulting a stepping stone to business school, or is business school a stepping stone to consulting?  We&#8217;ll cover these questions, and more, in this and upcoming articles.  (<strong>Disclaimer:</strong>this article is not meant to criticize the value of  MBA programs; rather, the focus is on evaluating fit for MBA programs given one&#8217;s goals)</p>
<p><strong>Breaking into consulting with vs. without an MBA</strong></p>
<p>You&#8217;re at a crossroads in your life, and you know you want to take the next step. You know that you&#8217;re interested in consulting, but you&#8217;re not sure if you can break in with your current credentials, and you think an MBA might help.  What do you do?</p>
<p>For 80% of job-seekers, I would offer the following advice: <strong>apply to consulting firms right now</strong>.<strong> </strong>Just as some people mistakenly think consulting/finance is usually necessary for an MBA  or alternative program like an <a href="http://www.mbaonline.com">MBA online</a>, some people mistakenly assume that a <a href="http://www.toptenmba.org/">top ten MBA</a> is usually necessary for consulting. <strong>Most people </strong>with a few years of work experience can find some way to explain how their past accomplishments relate in some way to business or consulting.</p>
<p>Get started by doing the following things:</p>
<ul>
<li>Update and perfect your resume and cover letter.</li>
<li>Create a list of 20-25 consultancies that you’d love to work for, with notes on each one. You can start with a ranking such as the <a href="http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/!ut/p/c5/hZDNcoJAEISfJQ-QmkGQnyOyqMjuAuFH4GIRogQKgaogiTy9WJVDTGIyc_yqe6YbUpi2yYayyPqybbIaYkjlnSxo3FfWM3SklY6W6q2WKrPQCKSJJ1-5JxK00OdMlOdUpMI_6i3EKO38Su3YuY_paAxBNXrIqYmMbN8ZyZFrxH2JnsKFTohn1OdJk966_rx55XhndPyuv_nKVubA1-1">Vault Top 50 Consulting Firms</a> and researching each firm; but keep in mind that rankings aren’t everything.</li>
<li>Create a 3-column table in Word or Excel for brainstorming.  In the left column of the table, create a list of traits that make good consultants (e.g. leadership, teamwork, analytical skill) Then, in the middle column, write out <strong>in specific detail</strong> 1-3 accomplishments or experiences that demonstrate each trait, including results and what you learned. Finally, in the right column, write down a potential situation you might encounter as a consultant where you could leverage the experiences described in the middle column.  This brainstorming session may help you convince yourself and recruiters that <strong>you are already suitable for consulting</strong>, even without an MBA.</li>
</ul>
<p>Moreover, experience in a certain field (e.g. IT or healthcare) means you <strong>can try to join the relevant specialized industry practice</strong> of a large consulting firm or even a boutique consulting firm specializing in that industry.  If you have a strong academic or analytical background, <strong>consider applying for a research analyst</strong> position within a consulting firm to get your foot in the door.</p>
<p><span id="more-2366"></span></p>
<p>Most large consulting firms like McKinsey and Deloitte have dedicated research groups that support client service teams – while this may not be your ideal job, it can be a good transitional role while gaining exposure to how the industry works. Finally, consulting firms hire people mostly for their demonstrated traits and skills, which are more important than past affiliation with any organization. Have you lead teams and demonstrated success in doing so? Have you pursued challenging problems and shown measurable results? <strong>You need to be good at telling your story</strong> to reflect those traits and skills.</p>
<p>Another key point: many people don&#8217;t realize that they can pursue a <strong>high-paying and fulfilling</strong> job with great training and advancement opportunities outside of McBain Group.  There are great consulting firms out there looking for people with skills and personality traits like yours, especially if you write a <strong>great resume and cover letter and ace the interview process</strong>.</p>
<p>If you are still obsessed about prestige, consider that 2 years working at a top 50 consulting firm is an excellent springboard for applying to a top 10 consulting firm. This springboard may be even better than an MBA and you will also be over $200,000 richer than if you had gotten an MBA.</p>
<p>Finally, consulting firms often offer MBA-like training.  McKinsey sends many of its non-MBAs to a 3-4 week mini-MBA boot camp to learn the most important tools and concepts. In 1993, 61% of new McKinsey recruits had MBAs, but that number is now down to less than half, which demonstrates that McKinsey believes it quickly train non-MBAs to be consultants. You should research the training opportunities at a firm if that is important for you.</p>
<p>If you are reading this right now, that means you are likely already more motivated and qualified than most to apply to a consulting job.</p>
<p>The conclusion is simple: in most cases, if you are considering a consulting job, it is best to <strong>apply now.</strong></p>
<p>The worst thing that could happen is you use up a few dozen hours and end up being<strong> much more knowledgeable about consulting</strong> firms. The experience can even help you evaluate your true interest in consulting.  Additionally, assuming you didn&#8217;t do anything rude or unprofessional, firms will see your commitment if you re-apply later on.</p>
<p>What would be the other 20% of candidates?</p>
<p>In some cases, it actually may be better to get an MBA first if:</p>
<p>1. You have more important long-term goals besides consulting (e.g. starting an international trade company) and your own assessment shows that you need the MBA to serve those long-term goals.  For many people, however, long-term goals are unclear and therefore not factored into consideration much. How to perform such an assessment is outside the scope of this blog.</p>
<p>2. You are extremely passionate about learning the management theory that an MBA has to offer, whether or not you will use it. (i.e. you love learning for learning&#8217;s sake even if it&#8217;s really expensive) Many MBAs comment that they only apply a portion of what they learned toward their actual consulting jobs.</p>
<p>3. Your previous experience is utterly removed from the corporate world (e.g. you spent 2 years writing a novel about unicorns)</p>
<p>4. You&#8217;ve already applied to 15 consulting firms and got rejected from all of them, even after writing a great resume/CL and properly preparing for interviews. (For the vast majority of our readership, I would be surprised if this happened.)</p>
<p>5. You feel that your past experience would qualify you to get into a top 10 business school but not a top 25 consulting firm. (e.g. you spent 2 years successfully fighting AIDS in Africa and you have a 760 GMAT score)</p>
<p>Getting an MBA is really expensive, and real<strong>-world experience usually trumps theory</strong>, so you should be very sure you need an MBA before you apply.</p>
<p><strong>MBA admissions and consulting</strong></p>
<p>OK, so let&#8217;s say you are still set on getting an MBA. Some people think of the relationship between the top business schools and the top consulting firms as a <strong>revolving door</strong>, i.e. people from McKinsey get into Harvard Business  School, and <a href="http://www.hyperink.com/the-best-book-on-hbs-admissions-b38">people from HBS</a> get into McKinsey.  Well, that&#8217;s true to an extent, but it&#8217;s not quite that simple.</p>
<p>Although business schools see consulting as great work experience, schools also try extremely hard to achieve a<strong> balanced, diversified student body</strong>.  This means that, even if hypothetically a third of a school&#8217;s applicants are consultants, there is no way the school is going to let a third of their study body be ex-consultants, which implies a <strong>lower acceptance rate than average applicants for consultants </strong>in this situation.</p>
<p>INSEAD (which sends roughly one-fifth of its students into McKinsey, BCG, and Bain every year) has once stated &#8220;We&#8217;re hoping the<strong> [number of students from consulting backgrounds] does not increase any further</strong>.&#8221; That even a consulting talent powerhouse like INSEAD wants to limit their consulting students shows just how much business schools value diversity.  (As a side note, you can see from the placement statistics that INSEAD and other schools may actually be a better choice than Harvard for breaking into consulting.)</p>
<p>This produces the paradoxical situation of consultants wishing they had some &#8220;unique work experiences&#8221; and non-consultants wishing they had consulting experience when applying to b-school.  What should you do? Easy: <strong>stop worrying</strong>.  Focus your time on improving your application and telling your life story better instead of spending time worrying about whether or not you have consulting experience.</p>
<p>It is impossible, and also pointless, to estimate just how many consultants are applying to a school on a given year.  If you are a not a consultant, focus on business experiences and <strong>explain how an MBA combined with your past experiences can make you a great business leader</strong> in the future.   If you are a consultant, focus on why you are more accomplished and more well-rounded than other consultants.</p>
<p><strong>I&#8217;m currently a student with little or no work experience, and I&#8217;m interested in consulting.  Is it too early to apply to MBA programs? </strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;">The short answer is yes.  It will be extremely hard to get into an MBA program with little work experience (except for the unique <a href="http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/2+2/" target="_blank">Harvard 2+2 program</a>) and you may not have the experience necessary to judge if you really need an MBA. In almost all cases it&#8217;s better to get some actual work experience first, whether it&#8217;s consulting or not.  If your grades, major, or school reputation makes it hard to enter consulting, try to accumulate specialized knowledge in another field while taking on business responsibilities (like team leadership).</span></strong></p>
<p><strong>How much of what you learn in business school actually helps in consulting?</strong></p>
<p>This depends a lot on the school/curriculum you choose. Each firm will train you anyway with the management frameworks and tools that you will need, and that training will be more directly relevant.  That being said, if you choose your school and curriculum well, you could develop new perspectives to approaching business problems, and you can also improve your general teamwork/leadership skills, which always helps.  More on this in the next post.</p>
<p><strong>I&#8217;m already a consultant. Do I still need an MBA?</strong></p>
<p>If you want to return to your current firm, this answer depends on the firm.  For many firms, no.  How can sitting in a classroom and talking about business problems teach you more than working on those problems directly?  For other firms, an MBA is recommended for most consultants aspiring to more senior positions, since they will benefit from an expanded network and enhanced perspectives on business problems. You should observe the system of promotions in your firm and talk to your colleagues who have done an MBA before. As an example, CapGemini and Booz &amp; Co. promote non-MBAs more readily than Bain and BCG. The answer also varies by region; for example, the Japan and Germany offices of global consultancies tend to have less MBAs among the top ranks.</p>
<p>If you want to change to another consulting firm, an MBA may make sense if you are targeting a firm that is much more selective than your current firm or a firm that places heavy emphasis on MBAs.  Given your previous consulting background, an MBA is usually unnecessary unless you are dead-set on a small number of certain firms.</p>
<p>In our next post, we&#8217;ll address how to choose <strong>the most suitable MBA program</strong> for a consulting career, as well as provide <strong>advice for current MBAs</strong><strong> </strong>to maximize their educational experience and chances of landing the ideal management or strategy consulting job.</p>
<p><strong>About the Author:</strong></p>
<p>The author of this article is a long-time team member of Management Consulted and has extensive experience in consulting and at bulge-bracket investment banks, including interviewing MBA applicants. He has requested anonymity to protect his employer.</p>
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		<title>Interview with a former Bain consultant &#8211; Life as a Consultant series</title>
		<link>http://managementconsulted.com/consulting-interviews/bain-consultant-interview/</link>
		<comments>http://managementconsulted.com/consulting-interviews/bain-consultant-interview/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 02:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[consulting interviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bain consultant]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bain recruiting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[consulting interview]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[consulting lifestyle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[exit opportunities]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MBA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[venture capital]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managementconsulted.com/?p=1734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#8217;s been awhile since our last Life as a Consultant interview. We&#8217;ve talked to consultants from McKinsey, Nortel Consulting, and Booz Allen amongst others. Today&#8217;s interview is with a former Bain consultant. His story is particularly interesting given his engineering background and current venture capital role. Now on to the interview! I&#8217;ve bolded a few [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p>It&#8217;s been awhile since our last <strong>Life as a Consultant</strong> interview. We&#8217;ve talked to consultants from <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2009/02/life-as-a-consultant-interview-with-marquis-of-mckinsey-and-marquis-weblog/">McKinsey</a>, <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2009/02/life-as-a-consultant-an-interview-with-steve-shu-of-nortel-business-consulting/">Nortel Consulting</a>, and <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2009/01/life-as-a-consultant-an-interview-with-a-consultant-from-booz-allen/">Booz Allen</a> amongst others.  </p>
<p>Today&#8217;s interview is with a former Bain consultant. His story is particularly interesting given his <strong>engineering background</strong> and current <strong>venture capital</strong> role.</p>
<p class="alert">Now on to the interview! I&#8217;ve <strong>bolded a few particularly helpful comments</strong> for recruiting and shared my reactions in gray boxes</p>
<p><em>The views and opinions expressed are strictly those of the interviewee and do not reflect the views of the interviewee’s employers or affiliated entities.</em></p>
<h3>1. For the benefit of readers, can you give us a summary of your background? Education, current job, previous jobs, interests, etc</h3>
<p>I graduated from a private university on the West Coast with a bachelor&#8217;s degree in Electrical Engineering. In between the summer of my sophomore and junior years, I did an internship at a semiconductor company in their product development department. While I knew that my passion was in technology, I wasn&#8217;t sure if I wanted to be an engineer after my summer internship.</p>
<p><span id="more-1734"></span></p>
<p>In my junior year, I was involved with a <strong>student-run consulting group</strong>, where I worked with Fortune 500 companies on strategic issues in a small student team.   That&#8217;s where my interest in consulting really took off. The following summer after my junior year, I did an <strong>internship with Bain</strong> in their San Francisco office. I enjoyed my experience enough to return full-time in 2006. I worked at Bain for about 2 years, working on projects that spanned a variety of industries including semiconductors, private equity, media, consumer products and health care. I also had the privilege of working in multiple Bain offices including Hong Kong, Shanghai, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Silicon Valley.</p>
<p>I left Bain after 2 years to join a <strong>venture capital firm</strong> in Silicon Valley that focuses on tech and cleantech investments.</p>
<h3>2. Many readers of MC have an engineering/technical background similar to yours. What advice can you give them about breaking into consulting?</h3>
<p>From my experience, engineers tend to do very well in consulting, particularly at a firm like Bain. Consulting is a very quantitative and analytical job, especially at the lower levels. Because a junior consultant does not have years of industry experience to draw upon, in order to stand out, he or she can add value by demonstrating a <strong>keen grasp of the numbers</strong> and by defending a recommendation with solid financial/data analysis and research.</p>
<p>That said, engineers often fight an <strong>uphill battle</strong> when applying or interviewing for consulting jobs. Be sure to have a well thought out story about why you want to work in consulting given your engineering background. You will also need to demonstrate that you have done the appropriate preparation while in school to succeed in consulting from the start. This could include taking some <strong>business-related classes</strong>, such as Financial Accounting or Economics, or participating in a business group, such as a student consulting group.</p>
<p class="note">A good story and evidence of <strong>thorough preparation</strong> are critical. More thoughts on landing <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2009/01/04/getting-a-management-consulting-job-from-an-engineering-andor-technical-background/">consulting jobs from engineering</a></p>
<h3>3. Bain is one of the most desirable consulting firms to work for. Can you tell us what the recruiting process was like?</h3>
<p>Bain tends to focus on top-tier universities for recruiting, whether it is out of undergrad or business/graduate school. Bain works closely with my university&#8217;s established career services department every year for the recruiting process. There are usually two cycles for recruiting: once in the Fall for full-time candidates (graduating seniors), and once in the Winter for summer internship candidates (juniors or seniors planning to complete a master&#8217;s degree).</p>
<p>Bain follows strict deadlines for resume submissions and first/second round interviews. &#8220;Off-cycle&#8221; hiring is <strong>very rare</strong> and is usually reserved for people currently working in industry (i.e., not for students). After the resume submissions, those selected for interviews will go through 2 or more rounds, in which multiple consultants and managers will give case and fit questions. The entire process goes by very quickly; candidates usually find out whether they have made it to the next round in less than a week.</p>
<p class="note">Off-cycle hiring at the top firms is always tough. More on <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/consulting-jobs/bain-recruiting-consulting-jobs/">Bain recruiting</a> from an international perspective</p>
<h3>4. Based on your summer internship, what would you say are the most important differences between a summer and a fulltime job at Bain?</h3>
<p>One great aspect of the summer internship is the amount of exposure Bain gives interns to the projects and the work. Interns become integral members of their cases, and are involved in every team meeting and often in client meetings as well. This gives the interns a real feel for what the projects are like and what it would be like to work at Bain full-time.  </p>
<p>One major difference between the internship and the full-time job would be that during the internship, Bain still has the responsibility of <strong>&#8220;selling&#8221; the intern</strong>. Social events, fancy dinners, and fun trips are planned for the interns all summer long to make sure they have a great summer and want to come back to Bain after graduation. While the social events are still a part of the full-time job, they do not constitute as large a portion.  </p>
<p>Another major difference between the internship and full-time is the <strong>amount of responsibility</strong> one is given. Interns work on projects for about 8-10 weeks before heading back to school. It is very difficult to carve out a meaningful chunk of work for such a short period of time, although Bain does a decent job at it. With the full-time position, one can work on a project for 3-6 months or more, and can really dig into a piece of work in great depth. In this way, the full-time experience was much more fulfilling, as I felt like my work really made a difference for my clients.</p>
<h3>5. Bain is also known as one of the most &#8220;fun&#8221; firms to work at. Do you think this reputation is justified, and if so, why?</h3>
<p>While I can&#8217;t compare the experience with working at other consulting firms, working at Bain was definitely a fun experience. One common analogy I hear is that working at Bain feels like <strong>being in college</strong>, and I would definitely agree with that. Because of the &#8220;bottom-heavy&#8221; structure of Bain, there are a lot of new college graduates in the office, making the workplace a very social environment. </p>
<p>Bain also promotes a fun office culture through regular, sponsored social events ranging from simple things like happy hours to annual offsites, in which the entire office goes to locations such as Cabo San Lucas or Hawaii for a three-day long party (with a <strong>few business meetings</strong> here and there).</p>
<h3>6. Many people enter consulting because they think it opens doors and provides many exit opportunities. Does this ring true from your personal experience and the experience of your colleagues?</h3>
<p>Yes and no. Often the sales pitch is that after 2-3 years of consulting experience, one can go into virtually any industry and choose their job function. This is a <strong>bit of an exaggeration</strong> and it&#8217;s important that readers get a realistic view. </p>
<p>The consulting experience provides people with very rigorous, real-world business training and equips them with the ability to solve business problems with a structured and analytical approach. The experience is better suited toward certain industries/job functions than others. Natural exit opportunities include private equity, venture capital, or corporate strategy, which are not bad options at all.  </p>
<p>There are certain other job functions that consulting does not prepare as well for, such as starting your own business which may require some <strong>operational experience</strong>. That&#8217;s not to say that consultants haven&#8217;t succeeded in starting their own businesses, as I know plenty of former consultants that have. However, often there are other elements in a person&#8217;s career in addition to the consulting experience that have allowed him/her to succeed in such endeavors, such as years of operational experience before consulting or an MBA.  Overall, most prospective employers find former consultants <strong>highly desirable</strong> because of the great training that consulting provides and the high quality talent that consulting firms demand.</p>
<p class="note">I couldn&#8217;t agree more &#8211; see the series on <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2009/02/26/management-consulting-exit-opportunities/">consulting exit opportunities</a></p>
<h3>7. Can you tell us what it&#8217;s like transitioning from Bain to Venture Capital and how the two jobs compare?</h3>
<p>In both consulting and VC, I have to be very agile when becoming knowledgeable about a particular company or industry. In consulting, a client who&#8217;s been at the company or working in the industry for many years is paying me a lot of money for my advice, so I had better not waste time in becoming an expert. In VC, I look at new investment opportunities across a variety of industries and have to become knowledgeable enough in a short amount of time to make a decision about whether or not to invest.  </p>
<p>There are a few major differences, however. The consulting world is a bit more defined. The client and the consulting team together come up with the questions to answer and the deliverables, and the workplan naturally follows. VC is <strong>much more vague</strong>. The only guidance is to bring in good investment opportunities and make good decisions about whether or not to invest. There are a million ways that I can spend my time and none of them is the best way. I have to be disciplined on my own and monitor how I spend my time.  </p>
<p>In terms of the lifestyle, I <strong>work fewer hours</strong> in VC than I did in consulting (when I was on an active project). VC is also a bit more flexible, as I can set my own hours and work locations to a certain extent. However, with consulting, I knew when I was done. There are specific deliverables and I often got time off in between projects where I didn&#8217;t have to think about work at all. In VC, I&#8217;m never done &#8212; there is always another startup to research and more to do, although there is usually no urgency on the VC side to get things done by a certain time/date.</p>
<h3>8. Where do you see yourself in the next 5 years?</h3>
<p>I plan to get an MBA after a few years in VC. After that, I would like to stay close to technology and entrepreneurship by staying in VC, joining a startup, or starting my own company. While I really enjoyed my years as a consultant and would recommend it to most people, I don&#8217;t think I will go back. I think my passion is in working with new technologies and entrepreneurial people.</p>
<h3>9. Any last words of advice to prospective consultants?</h3>
<p>Just some food for thought: consulting is not for everyone. My experience was this it was the perfect first job out of college for me. I got great business training that I could use for the rest of my career. However, for me, staying longer than 2-3 years would put me on a path to <strong>become a career consultant</strong> (which is a great career choice, but not for me). The longer one does consulting, there are diminishing returns to the value the experience adds to future job opportunities in other areas. In other words, the longer you do consulting, the better you get at being a consultant. This is a realization that many come to after a few years in consulting, and it is often a difficult choice about whether to stay or move on, and when is the right time to leave.</p>
<p><strong>That&#8217;s it, folks!</strong> </p>
<p><strong>Looking for:</strong> Current consultant? Interested in sharing your story with readers? <a href="mailto:kevin@managementconsulted.com">Get in touch</a> to setup an interview or become a guest poster!</p>
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		<title>Business school recruiting and applying to international offices: round-up of reader questions</title>
		<link>http://managementconsulted.com/business-consulting/business-school-recruiting-and-applying-to-international-offices-round-up-of-reader-questions/</link>
		<comments>http://managementconsulted.com/business-consulting/business-school-recruiting-and-applying-to-international-offices-round-up-of-reader-questions/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 02:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[business consulting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[business school]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Fortune 500]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[GPA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[international offices]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MBA]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mckinsey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[on-campus recruiting]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managementconsulted.com/?p=1065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A new resource for prospective consultants &#8211; this was advertised through the]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p><img src="http://www.managementconsulted.com/images/question_mark.jpg" align="right">A new resource for prospective consultants &#8211; this was advertised through the <a href="href="http://consultingmag.com/">Consulting Magazine</a> newsletter. It&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.theiccn.com">niche social network</a> dedicated to students who are currently involved with campus consulting clubs. It&#8217;s just getting started (only 60 members atm) but could be a useful resource in the coming years. If anyone uses it, <strong>let me know your experience!</strong></p>
<p class="alert">For a <strong>complete list of reader questions</strong> I&#8217;ve answered here at MC, visit the <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/faq/">FAQ page</a>. Ctrl-F to find what you need</p>
<p>On to reader questions through the last week:</p>
<h3>Will attending a top business school make it much easier to get into management consulting?</h3>
<p>Definitely. Target business schools provide a <strong>level of access</strong> that you don&#8217;t get anywhere else. Given how selective the <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2008/12/24/overview-of-the-management-consulting-recruiting-process-from-information-sessions-to-interviews-to-negotiating-the-offer/">recruiting process</a> is, your best chances of <a href="http://www.managementconsulted.com">breaking into consulting</a> happen in-school.</p>
<p><span id="more-1065"></span></p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t have that luxury but want to break into consulting, consider the following two elements when debating career paths: prestige and skill-development. Consulting firms respect <strong>brand-name companies</strong>, and they respect jobs where you learn a <strong>broad set of business skills</strong>.</p>
<h3>What&#8217;s wrong with not including interests on your resume?</h3>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing explicitly wrong. Including interests has no downside, and <strong>plenty of upside</strong>. So why <strong>wouldn&#8217;t</strong> you do it? It gives resume readers and interviewers an opportunity to understand you better, and there&#8217;s always the chance <strong>your interests will overlap with theirs</strong>. If that happens, it&#8217;s a huge boost to your chances (for instance, if you and your interviewer are both avid mountaineers).</p>
<h3>How important is undergrad GPA for MBA recruitment. I have a 3.2 avg over all four years but a 3.7 over my final two years (got my act together). Is there anyway to spin this positively on the resume? I also got a 730 on the GMAT if that helps anything.</h3>
<p>Not my area of expertise, Marquis talks about <a href="http://marquisweblog.blogspot.com">MBA recruitment issues</a> at length. My guess is that undergrad GPA plus a variety of academic factors (eg, major, transcript, etc) play a large role in the admissions process. A 730 GMAT helps but won&#8217;t completely factor out the 3.2 GPA the first two years. The best way to spin this, if the issue arises, is to explain how the transformation in your approach to studies took place. Provide a good story, and then <strong>emphasize repeatedly the positive results</strong> that have come in the intervening years.</p>
<h3>Is the nature of pre-mba experience important? Currently I work in the strategy/corp. finance department of a Fortune 500 company. I also moved up pretty quickly (only 2.5 years out of school, but promoted to Manager of Long-Term Strategy)</h3>
<p>Definitely. Working at a brand name firm and being successful on the job (as shown by <strong>promotions, accomplishments, references</strong>) makes a huge difference in MBA recruiting (and consulting recruiting as well).</p>
<h3>I&#8217;m a senior graduating in May 2009. I know that most firms have already done their recruiting this past fall, but unfortunately, I was studying abroad. Do you have a breakdown of how the firms recruit? Are there some firms that do their recruiting in Winter and Spring?</h3>
<p>Most on-campus recruiting occurs in a concentrated time-frame (typically Fall for full-time, late-Fall and Winter for summer/internships). I do not have a specific breakdown of how firms recruit, but many will do recruiting on a rolling basis as well. Your best bet is to contact your school&#8217;s career services office, as well as HR/recruiting contacts that you have at target firms. As mentioned earlier, <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2009/01/11/how-to-break-into-any-consulting-firm-even-if-they-dont-recruit-at-your-school/">online consulting applications</a> are not the best way to go.</p>
<p>In normal years, you may still have a shot &#8211; certain offices and departments may be looking to meet headcount; yield rates may be lower than anticipated. In today&#8217;s economy, that&#8217;s a lot tougher.</p>
<h3>The thought of applying directly to the McKinsey New York office, for example, from Sydney never crossed my mind. Is this possible?</h3>
<p>The broader question here is the feasibility of applying to international consulting offices. Short answer is possible but tough. Long answer is it comes down to a variety of factors &#8211; such as if you&#8217;re a good fit for that region (language expertise? local work experience?); the quality of their local recruiting class. Typically if you list international offices on your application and are a <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2009/01/21/how-management-consultants-read-resumes-and-the-secrets-behind-landing-an-interview/">strong consulting candidate</a>, they&#8217;ll consider you for the office provided <strong>language is not a barrier</strong>. </p>
<h3>Out of curiosity, do you have any confidence that public consulting continues? Seems like exactly the time those things will be cut back.</h3>
<p>Given the nature of public-sector consulting (eg, federal, state, and local government consulting) &#8211; the size of the clients, the large pocketbooks, the long-term nature of most projects &#8211; there may be a slight decrease in demand but I&#8217;d expect a <strong>larger decline in private-sector consulting</strong>. </p>
<h3>I got a certificate in business administration from an extension program 2 yrs after a PhD in Mechanical Engineering &#8211; should I mention the certificate first in the education section of a consulting resume?</h3>
<p>The question about certifications/licenses/etc is a good one. In general, I&#8217;d list a few of the most relevant ones &#8211; business skills, project management certifications, etc. If it&#8217;s not a generally recognizable certification (use common-sense here), provide a short explanation.</p>
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		<title>How to get consulting jobs &#8211; even if consulting firms don&#8217;t recruit at your school</title>
		<link>http://managementconsulted.com/consulting-jobs/how-to-break-into-any-consulting-firm-even-if-they-dont-recruit-at-your-school/</link>
		<comments>http://managementconsulted.com/consulting-jobs/how-to-break-into-any-consulting-firm-even-if-they-dont-recruit-at-your-school/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[consulting jobs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[accenture]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[consulting recruiting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Deloitte & Touche]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://managementconsulted.com/?p=550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most GMCs (global management consultancies) such as Booz Allen, BCG, and Accenture recruit at only the top 25-50 U.S. undergraduate and MBA programs. Internationally, the process is even more selective. So what can you do if you&#8217;re a strong candidate, but the firms you want to work for simply don&#8217;t recruit at your school? Exceptions [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p><img src="http://www.managementconsulted.com/images/networking.jpg" alt="" align="right" />Most GMCs (global management consultancies) such as <a href="http://www.boozallen.com/">Booz Allen</a>, <a href="http://www.bcg.com">BCG</a>, and <a href="http://www.accenture.com">Accenture </a>recruit at only the top 25-50 U.S. undergraduate and MBA programs. Internationally, the process is <strong>even more selective</strong>. So what can you do if <strong>you&#8217;re a strong candidate</strong>, but the firms you want to work for simply don&#8217;t recruit at your school?</p>
<p class="alert">Exceptions include <strong>large public universities</strong>, given the sheer size of their student body and alumni base, and schools with <strong>undergraduate business programs</strong> that have strong firm relationships</p>
<h3>What can you do if you want to work for [INSERT FIRM HERE] and they don&#8217;t recruit at your MBA or undergraduate institution?</h3>
<p>This is a disadvantage in the <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2008/12/24/overview-of-the-management-consulting-recruiting-process-from-information-sessions-to-interviews-to-negotiating-the-offer/">recruiting process</a>. Given consulting firms&#8217; lack of recruiting resources, alternative application methods (such as submitting your resume online) <strong>receive less attention and carry less weight</strong>.</p>
<p>Here are a few options that you can pursue:<br />
<span id="more-550"></span></p>
<ul>
<li>Online application submission &#8211; companies ranging from <a href="http://www.mckinsey.com">McKinsey</a> to <a href="http://deloitte.com/dtt/home/0,1044,stc%253DHOME%2526lid%253D2,00.html">Deloitte &amp; Touche</a> provide this option</li>
<li>Direct application submission through &#8220;Contact Us&#8221; links and public email addresses &#8211; this may be the only online option available at <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2008/12/12/recruiting-decisions-what-is-the-difference-between-global-management-consulting-firms-and-boutique-consulting-firms/">smaller boutique firms</a></li>
<li>Headhunters and job placement firms &#8211; <a href="http://www.glocap.com">GloCap</a> is a great example</li>
<li>Application submission through firm contacts &#8211; friends, school alumni contacts, etc</li>
</ul>
<p class="alert">Your goal if you can&#8217;t do &#8220;standard recruiting&#8221; is to <strong>build contacts within the firms</strong> and get <strong>internal referrals</strong></p>
<h3>Here&#8217;s what you should do:</h3>
<p><strong><a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2008/12/28/the-right-way-to-network-and-gather-information-at-management-consulting-information-sessionsmixerscompany-presentations/">Network, network, network</a></strong>. Reach out to school alumni contacts that work in the industry and at that firm. Reach out to current or former work colleagues that work in the industry themselves or are well-connected. Ask your family and your friends. Tell people about your goal, because the more people that know, the better chance you&#8217;ll have of being referred to HR contacts and current consultants</p>
<p><strong>Think beyond your circle</strong>. If you&#8217;re an undergraduate, consider attending the MBA job fairs to establish contacts, get a few business cards, and even submit your <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2008/12/19/top-10-resume-tips-for-management-consulting-resumes/">resume</a>. If you&#8217;re an MBA student, look into the law school job fair and/or job fairs for nearby MBA programs. While you&#8217;re not guaranteed success, <strong>you need to take risks given the limited options in front of you</strong></p>
<p><strong>Contact headhunters</strong>. Particularly if you have a few years of work experience. Headhunters have industry contacts and a broad view of available options. Be specific about your career goals, but not close-minded</p>
<p><strong>Build relationships by being direct and specific</strong>. Now you know a recruiter in Bain&#8217;s Boston office. And you know a school alumni who&#8217;s a consultant in BCG&#8217;s Dallas office. Email them first &#8211; remind them of who you are, what your goals are, and the one or two areas where they can help. <strong>Keep the email short</strong> (no more than 5-10 lines of body text). <strong>Provide multiple contact channels</strong>. If you receive no response within one week, it&#8217;s <strong>OK to call and leave a brief voicemail</strong>.</p>
<p><strong>What are areas where they can help you out?</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Provide you with the right internal recruiting contacts to submit your resume/CV</li>
<li>Introduce you to firm contacts with shared interests, backgrounds, etc</li>
<li>Answer your questions about <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2008/12/11/management-consulting-and-the-consulting-industry-101/">the industry</a>, the firm, etc</li>
</ul>
<p class="alert">Never explicitly ask for an &#8220;internal referral&#8221; (a good word about you sent to HR/recruiters) unless you know them well. Work on establishing a relationship first. Keep them updated on the process (eg, &#8220;I just submitted my resume to Casey in recruiting and am looking forward to what&#8217;s next&#8221;). It&#8217;s OK to drop your contact&#8217;s name in your application materials/cover letter <strong>(if it&#8217;s done properly)</strong></p>
<h3>If all else fails, adjust your expectations and bide your time.</h3>
<p>If you&#8217;ve tried the above and are getting nowhere, then <strong>option 1</strong> is to find either the most prestigious alternative available (eg, <a href="http://managementconsulted.com/2008/12/16/question-of-the-day-management-consulting-versus-investment-banking/">finance</a>, Fortune 500) or a position with another strategy/management consulting firm. Continue networking in the industry and attempt the parallel hiring process. <strong>Option 2</strong> is to attend a school where the big firms recruit &#8211; if you&#8217;re an undergraduate, attend a top-tier MBA program. A master&#8217;s degree (or other advanced study program) is another option.</p>
<p><img class="alignnone frame size-full wp-image-14" src="http://www.managementconsulted.com/images/bigresumecartoon.jpeg" alt="Cartoon about recruiting and resumes" align="middle" /></p>
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